Vaccinated roll-call

sxl2004 · Aug 11, 2021

The Father
This is just the devil advocate perspective. I have received the vaccine.

Chances are probably 97.5%(just my number nothing scientific) or more there will be no long term side effects from the vaccine.

But if there is, will we say "my God what have we done, we vaccinated several billion humans"

Human are know for colossal mistakes.

More tongue in cheek.
IMNSHO the Covid side effects will be far more than any, if any at all, long term side effects from the vaccine.
Vaccination all the way.

Archer · Aug 11, 2021

Omegafanman
Based on most people I talk to they have no clue what the Vaccine is / have no understanding about mRNA or that is it anything new compared to previous vaccines - so I dont think we can say there has truly been informed consent. Then again the powers that be will be afraid that the majority of the population are unable to make sensible jugements and risk assesments from facts and take personal responsability....so less information avoids confusing them... which is a risk thanks to the powers that be led education systems :0)

Do the people you talk to live under rocks? I don't know how anyone could possibly avoid hearing about this to be honest. It is all over the place, including information given out where the vaccines are administered.

Archer · Aug 11, 2021

Pianotuna
One quick observation on vaccine passports, which some regard as an infringement on their rights. 50 years ago as a child I was fortunate to travel through the Sub-continent and Middle East with my parents. We were required to carry in our Passports yellow certificates proving we had received vaccinations for cholera and typhus and would have been declined entry without them. More pertinently it would have been foolish to travel to some of these places without said protective measures. This was in effect a vaccine passport so I admit to a certain bemusement over the claims about Rights.

Many countries still require vaccinations for various things to gain entry. When I went to Venezuela back on 2001, I had to have a yellow fever vaccine, and have the certificate in my passport or I wasn't going to be allowed into the country.

I suspect there are still countries who require vaccines to enter.

ChrisN · Aug 11, 2021

Pianotuna
We have now seen that the body’s natural immune system is in itself not enough to protect you, with cases just this past week in the UK, Australia and the USA of fit, healthy people with no underlying medical issues dying, some within days of diagnosis.

When you hear about cases in UK of fit, healthy people dying of this virus, it's because they are exceptions. They don't feature the people who got the virus and had minimal issues as there are many thousands of them - this has to be true as we record tens of thousands of new infections every day and always have.

Someone else posted about "half the people in Israel hospitals with the virus have been fully vaccinated" implying that the vaccine is not that effective. If I remembered wrong, then apologies. This is another issue where the numbers appear to say one thing but the reality is the opposite. If, simply, Israel has a population of 5 million, 80% fully vaccinated and 200 people are in hospital, that shows 100 came from the 4 million who were vaccinated and 100 came from the 1 million who weren't. So, the unvaccinated are 4 times more likely to be in hospital and it's proof the vaccine works.

I'm in UK and had the second vaccination at the beginning of May. They were both AZ which has had some bad press but lately seems to be touted as one of the best - I don't follow these things any more but am sure it was mentioned on the news. Here we are starting to go back to a normal life, slowly it has to be said and I am grateful. I've tried to follow my government's advice and I still think that's the best thing to do wherever you are. Our government appear to be somewhat chaotic but, they are being advised by people who have a lot of experience in this field.

I wish everyone the best of luck in this.

Cheers, Chris

Omegafanman · Aug 11, 2021

sxl2004
In regard to long term side effects, long term COVID etc vs vaccine long term side effects, I know where my bet is going.

I do hear you on that. I suppose one question is based on risk profile should there be a lower age limit at this stage?

Omegafanman · Aug 11, 2021

Archer
Many countries still require vaccinations for various things to gain entry. When I went to Venezuela back on 2001, I had to have a yellow fever vaccine, and have the certificate in my passport or I wasn't going to be allowed into the country.

I suspect there are still countries who require vaccines to enter.

International travel is a privilege and each country can set its rules. Engagement as a citizen and tax payer , voter in your own country is a different matter IMHO. Blocking people from supermarkets / allowing employers and businesses to block entry based on health status would be and is a step change in the UK. Also phone tracking and Apps enable a new level of control compared to paper based systems.

Omegafanman · Aug 11, 2021

Archer
Do the people you talk to live under rocks? I don't know how anyone could possibly avoid hearing about this to be honest. It is all over the place, including information given out where the vaccines are administered.

I do mix with a broad spectrum of society including some help the homeless work - so I guess bins and toilets in if not rocks can feature. I stand by my statement in the UK (across a broad spectrum) most people are not informed on the nature of the vaccine (I am not saying the vaccines are bad / just that they do not understand what it is) I am happy to be updated by someone else with wider UK experience.

Archer · Aug 11, 2021

Omegafanman
International travel is a privilege and each country can set its rules. Engagement as a citizen and tax payer , voter in your own country is a different matter IMHO. Blocking people from supermarkets / allowing employers to block entry etc would be and is a step change in the UK. Also phone tracking and Apps enable a new level of control compared to paper based systems.

If a business decides to not allow entry on private property to people who are unvaccinated, then personally I have no issues with that. Business will often have a sign that says "No shirt, no shoes, no service" so if it can be done for lack of clothing, it can be done for lack of vaccination for a virus.

Plenty of other precedents out there, like mandatory vaccinations for students to attend school. IMO this really isn't any different.

Archer · Aug 11, 2021

Omegafanman
I do mix with a broad spectrum of society including some help the homeless work - so I guess bins and toilets in if not rocks can feature. I stand by my statement in the UK (across a broad spectrum) most people are not informed on the nature of the vaccine (I am not saying the vaccines are bad / just that they do not understand what it is) I am happy to be updated by someone else with wider UK experience.

If "most" people are not informed, then I would suggest they didn't make much effort to be informed.

Here, information about the vaccines is all over the place, and as I said including the location where you actually get the vaccine. I was asked both times if I had any questions about what was going into my arm, and I'm sure that if I did they would have been answered. Are there people who may have slipped through the cracks? Yes I suspect so, but this is different than saying there is lack of informed consent on a broad basis, IMO.

josiahg52 · Aug 11, 2021

Where do the rights of a private business owner stop exactly? Seems we like parsing these rights depending on what class we belong to or what class we want to appear to be pandering to. To be clear, I believe that a private business owner can do business however they want. Customers - and not government - should decide best business practices.

Archer · Aug 11, 2021

josiahg52
Customers - and not government - should decide best business practices.

Customers should decide best business practices? I don't know if you run a business, but I do and that plan wouldn't let me be in business for long.

gbesq · Aug 11, 2021

josiahg52
Where do the rights of a private business owner stop exactly? Seems we like parsing these rights depending on what class we belong to or what class we want to appear to be pandering to. To be clear, I believe that a private business owner can do business however they want. Customers - and not government - should decide best business practices.

So you’re essentially saying that government should have no regulatory authority over businesses and that customers with no business acumen or experience should call the shots? Respectfully, that sounds like a recipe for disaster.

josiahg52 · Aug 11, 2021

Poor policies, poor business practices, poor service all will make customers look elsewhere and the business will fail. At the end of the day, some best policies should be apparent. I do believe that customers should, as you say, call the shots. What are you doing it for then? The sake of government regulation?

The middle sentence of my post clearly says that I believe a business owner has a right to do business exactly how they want to. Any person shouldn't be allowed to force them to do otherwise. The day I rely on government regulations that establish the fundamental policies that make my customers happy, coming back, and recommending my business to their acquaintances is a day I would question if I should be remain in operation.

Why is government regulation any better than consumer regulations? Government is us. The people. The consumers. I don't think 'government' fundamentally has any better ideas than a person might. Government has proven to be capable of some pretty bad ones. Just like the people.

Dan S · Aug 11, 2021

Omegafanman
Based on most people I talk to they have no clue what the Vaccine is / have no understanding about mRNA or that is it anything new compared to previous vaccines - so I dont think we can say there has truly been informed consent. Then again the powers that be will be afraid that the majority of the population are unable to make sensible jugements and risk assesments from facts and take personal responsability....so less information avoids confusing them... which is a risk thanks to the powers that be led education systems :0)

Omegafanman
I do mix with a broad spectrum of society including some help the homeless work - so I guess bins and toilets in if not rocks can feature. I stand by my statement in the UK (across a broad spectrum) most people are not informed on the nature of the vaccine (I am not saying the vaccines are bad / just that they do not understand what it is) I am happy to be updated by someone else with wider UK experience.

I think you are misunderstanding, or mis-stating, the meaning of informed consent. Informed consent requires that the person is made aware of the risks and benefits, not that they are given a full tutorial on the science behind the treatment. Are you expecting that everyone will be given some courses in biochemistry and immunology? Good luck explaining the mechanisms of action of various medications to the general public. It's not generally done, and not required ethically.

Modest_Proposal · Aug 11, 2021

I received by second COVID shot about three months ago, administered in a mass vaccination center through a car window. Unfortunately, it was administered much too high and caused tissue damage in my shoulder. I've been in physical therapy for over two months, and am getting an MRI later this week. Constant pain while lifting past the shoulder and stressing it. They think either partially torn rotator cuff or bursitis or maybe the fluids being injected somewhere that isn't absorbing it well.

I don't post this to scare people away from getting the vaccine. I don't feel regret. I just want them to be sure that when they get their shot - make sure it's not done carelessly . Apparently this type of injury falls under the term "SIRVA", or "Shoulder Injury Related to Vaccine Administration".

The Father · Aug 11, 2021

My observation concerning government being allowed to extend mandates over the citizens is slippery slope.
What is it, “give them an inch they will take a mile”

The junta may have a different view on what is good for you

Government is definitely not always the people

Omegafanman · Aug 11, 2021

Dan S
I think you are misunderstanding, or mis-stating, the meaning of informed consent. Informed consent requires that the person is made aware of the risks and benefits, not that they are given a full tutorial on the science behind the treatment. Are you expecting that everyone will be given some courses in biochemistry and immunology? Good luck explaining the mechanisms of action of various medications to the general public. It's not generally done, and not required ethically.

Possibly the level of information needed is more relevant when deciding for children / deciding on behalf of others ?

Doc Savage · Aug 11, 2021

The Father
My observation concerning government being allowed to extend mandates over the citizens is slippery slope.
What is it, “give them an inch they will take a mile”

The junta may have a different view on what is good for you

Government is definitely not always the people

Public health mandates are nothing new. Requiring vaccinations is not new. The only thing that is new here is people being misled by wealthy talking heads on TV or internet channels who are making $ off of misinforming their viewers.

Archer · Aug 11, 2021

josiahg52
The middle sentence of my post clearly says that I believe a business owner has a right to do business exactly how they want to. Any person shouldn't be allowed to force them to do otherwise. The day I rely on government regulations that establish the fundamental policies that make my customers happy, coming back, and recommending my business to their acquaintances is a day I would question if I should be remain in operation.

The thing is, this sort of thinking goes against any and all health and safety guidelines for businesses, both for employees and customers.

ChrisN · Aug 11, 2021

Omegafanman
I do mix with a broad spectrum of society including some help the homeless work - so I guess bins and toilets in if not rocks can feature. I stand by my statement in the UK (across a broad spectrum) most people are not informed on the nature of the vaccine (I am not saying the vaccines are bad / just that they do not understand what it is) I am happy to be updated by someone else with wider UK experience.

You are being a bit harsh here thinking that people have not tried to understand the risks of what they are being asked to take and, if you're correct, I suspect it is just the people you are dealing with. If you work in a field where everyone is educated to at least a scientific degree level, then you would probably have reached a different opinion - almost certainly with regards to those you would work with.

If you're researching to see how taking the vaccine might impact your personal situation as it's not obvious from the general leaflets, then I understand that. Perhaps some existing medication may affect your response to the vaccine, as an example.

If people are researching and deciding a contrary opinion on vaccination to the UK Chief Medical Officers then it makes no sense at all as any knowledge you will have gained is just at a superficial level. None of the scientific aspects are easy to grasp and you can only really understand this properly if you study for many years (for example, I studied until 23 to get my M.Sc.) and then spend many years building experience in the field, plus have access to all the current data, test results etc.

In UK, I believe that 90% of adults have already opted to take the vaccine and that includes many people who genuinely understand this and have access to all the background data. Let's hope this level is sufficient to suppress the virus here.

Good luck, Chris

Vaccinated roll-call

sxl2004

Archer

Archer

ChrisN

Omegafanman

Omegafanman

Omegafanman

Archer

Archer

josiahg52

Archer

gbesq

josiahg52

Dan S

Modest_Proposal

The Father

Omegafanman

Doc Savage

Archer

ChrisN

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