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Vaccinated roll-call

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pdxleaf
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gatorcpa gatorcpa
And their in lies the issue.

I’m in agreement that most healthy people have little to fear from COVID. However, it is impossible to know if you are one of that majority until you have it. At that point, you’ll find out, but it could be too late.

Because of this, I’ve gone back to working at home until the situation clears up somewhat in Florida. It’s not that I’m afraid of coming down with the virus, but I don’t know if I’m a carrier and I certainly don’t want to give it to someone else.

If everyone just had a little more compassion for their fellow humans, we would be done with this a lot faster.
gatorcpa

Agree with everything except that compassion without more vaccination will not make this covid go away or get under control. Unless what you are saying is we just wait for all the unvaccinated people to get covid and then we can go back to normal. I don't believe you are saying that but that seens to be the only alternative to vaccinations.
 
Archer
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gatorcpa gatorcpa
I’m in agreement that most healthy people have little to fear from COVID. However, it is impossible to know if you are one of that majority until you have it. At that point, you’ll find out, but it could be too late.

Indeed - here's a 2018 Olympic gold medalist Bobsled athlete who caught it was in dire shape. He's certainly not obese or lacking exercise...

Now recovering from COVID-19, Olympian Alex Kopacz recalls 'dark experience' of saying goodbye at 31 | CBC News
 
pdxleaf
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The Father The Father
Sounds great.
We can include smokers, drinkers, fried food consumers to the list of those excluded from medical services.

Many of them already pay a premium. And yes, there are efforts to change their behaviors and to make the costs associated with the behavior.

These examples also show that people don't do what is in their best interests. Therefore, in the case of an epidemic that affects the entire population, it is not wise to place our hopes on people making the wise choice.
 
The Father
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pdxleaf pdxleaf
Many of them already pay a premium. And yes, there are efforts to change their behaviors and to make the costs associated with the behavior.

These examples also show that people don't do what is in their best interests. Therefore, in the case of an epidemic that affects the entire population, it is not wise to place our hopes on people making the wise choice.

Again this is not an argument. Just pinning my hopes that in 5 to 10 years we don’t get an unintended side effect from the vaccine.
I got vaccinated and my wife (worked for major drug manufacturer for 30+ years)refuses to get it for the above reasoning. No matter how logical I get the answer is no.
Edited:
 
mrbreen
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It would appear at this point, that COVID is now endemic and we will be dealing with its variants for the rest of our lives. The best outcome we can hope for is that continuing vaccinations help reduce negative outcomes to seasonal Flu levels, i.e. an acceptable level of risk. So far this seems to be working out in vaccinated parts of the US. Fingers crossed.

And I'm gonna zag a bit from the above comments on "health/personal choice/wait and see-ism" vis-a-vis vaccine acceptance and contend that the moment this issue became politicized, where someone fell on that divide became a major motivating factor in their decision making process. Lacking expertise in a field, we often rely on, and make risk assessments based on heuristics and group dynamics, and then justify them with post hoc rationalizations like: "It's not FDA approved", "It may effect my fertility", "The long term effects are yet to be seen", etc.

To wit: this played out before with the release of the HPV vaccine in the US, and while the stakes were much lower, the general narrative obtains: http://www.culturalcognition.net/hpv-vaccine-research/
 
C
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The Father The Father
Again this is not an argument. Just pinning my hopes that in 5 to 10 years we don’t get an unintended side effect from the vaccine.
I got vaccinated and my wife refuses to get it for the above reasoning

I'm vaccinated, but I definitely don't get the Invasion of the Body Snatchers attitude of some. If you are vaccinated and believe the vaccine works, then you have no standing to care about another adult who chooses not to get vaccinated. This virus is simply never - never - going away. It's in the wild, and it mutates like any coronavirus, or influenza virus. There will constantly be new strains. Get over your fear of a virus that is admittedly very scary with a 99.7% survival rate, and nearly 99.9% for people under 75. It's in the 5 nines for vaccinated people.

Constantly fretting about the unvaccinated, and insisting that vaccinated people continue to wear masks, are things you can do to guarantee that vaccine hesitancy sticks around. However - and I have to stress this because it's simply true - even if we vaccinated 100% of every man, woman, and thing on earth; this virus would still survive. All we are doing with a vaccine is greatly - hugely - decreasing your chance of hospitalization or death. The virus is living on.

So... get the vaccine or don't. It's YOUR CALL. But those who are vaccinated should absolutely stop being concerned with bullying others into getting vaccinated. It's counterproductive and will have no effect on your personal safety.
 
Archer
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C ChiefMark
If you are vaccinated and believe the vaccine works, then you have no standing to care about another adult who chooses not to get vaccinated.

As long as those people don't try to say that "much of the spreading at this point is the result of vaccinated people behaving unsafely" then I agree with you. When they do suggest that, I'm pushing back.
 
blufinz52
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The unvaccinated are keeping this pandemic going. Vaccines eradicated smallpox and has kept numerous diseases under control such as polio. I just don’t get how anyone won’t get vaccinated against this coronavirus.
 
gatorcpa
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pdxleaf pdxleaf
Agree with everything except that compassion without more vaccination will not make this covid go away or get under control. Unless what you are saying is we just wait for all the unvaccinated people to get covid and then we can go back to normal. I don't believe you are saying that but that seens to be the only alternative to vaccinations.
I am saying neither.

I am saying that if people had more compassion, we wouldn’t be having this discussion as they would already be vaccinated and this pandemic would be under control.

But they don’t, and here we are.
gatorcpa
 
pdxleaf
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C ChiefMark
So... get the vaccine or don't. It's YOUR CALL. But those who are vaccinated should absolutely stop being concerned with bullying others into getting vaccinated. It's counterproductive and will have no effect on your personal safety.

I am more in this camp then the folks who wear masks to protect the unvaccinated, which is laudable.

It's not fretting about the virus for me, it's the going back to mandatory mask wearing at work, in public, the possibility of my kid not being able to go back to in class at college, and not least, the hospitals doctors and nurses getting the brunt of it and people dying needlessly.

I get what you're saying about it's their choice and the virus is here to stay. True. But not getting vaccinated does impact everyone.
 
LesXL
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A little bit of a chill moment... At the end of the day, most of the problem is...
IMG-20210810-WA0000.jpg
 
The Father
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Wait a minute. Where has all the logic gone?
The past history of vaccine research has had a 2-3 year timeframe for the phase III trials. Some drug testing is 5-7 years.

Now those that are suspect of the COVID vaccine are unreasonable or worse ?

Probably a 99% chance the COVID vaccines are fine and dandy.
I thought it was all about the science? The COVID vaccines long term effects have no science to validate it has no long term effects.

Sorry but not all those that oppose getting the vaccine think it has a microchip in it.
 
Tony C.
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mrbreen mrbreen
Lacking expertise in a field, we often rely on, and make risk assessments based on heuristics and group dynamics, and then justify them with post hoc rationalizations like: "It's not FDA approved", "It may effect my fertility", "The long term effects are yet to be seen", etc.

This is just silliness. One needn't be an expert in the field to understand these basic facts:

- mRNA vaccines have never been used on humans previously

- even normal vaccines typically undergo many years of safety studies before being approved, yet these were rushed into use in ~one year

- Pharmaceutical companies such as Pfizer stand to make enormous amounts of money from the vaccines

- these companies have been explicitly clear that they cannot be held legally responsible for any problems with the vaccines that may arise

- Governments are desperate to control the virus, and (especially in the U.S.) were/are under heavy lobbying pressure to employ the vaccines

To arrive at the conclusion that there are unknown medium and long term risks involved in using mRNA vaccines is simple, unassailable logic, based on facts.

I'm not suggesting that people should not get vaccinated for that reason alone, but it is certainly not a trivial consideration, and nothing like a "post hoc rationalization".
 
Archer
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Tony C. Tony C.
One needn't be an expert in the field to understand these basic facts:

- mRNA vaccines have never been used on humans previously

This "fact" is not completely true. Although this is the first widespread use of mRNA vaccines, they have been tested with other infections previously. They were tested for rabies, influenza, cytomegalovirus, and Zika.
 
pdxleaf
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@The Father and @Tony C. Just speaking for myself, I share the initial nervousness over the shortened review. But the alternative risk from covid was higher.

New drugs are always a cause for a bit of apprehension. There's a reason that pharmaceuticals advertise on television. It's not just because they want to cure the world of some new disease no one has ever heard of. They want more people to use it to increase their population study. Sometimes adverse reactions show up well after a full length review.

The concerns you mentioned are valid to me ( for what it's worth, but who cares what I think anyway.) There have also been millions of actual doses so it's not like the initial shortened review was the only study, right? We have a lot of actual real world test results now.

(Thanks to the forum for keeping this thread alive and civil.)
 
Tony C.
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Archer Archer
This "fact" is not completely true. Although this is the first widespread use of mRNA vaccines, they have been tested with other infections previously. They were tested for rabies, influenza, cytomegalovirus, and Zika.

Those were clinical trials, Al.
 
mrbreen
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Archer Archer
This "fact" is not completely true. Although this is the first widespread use of mRNA vaccines, they have been tested with other infections previously. They were tested for rabies, influenza, cytomegalovirus, and Zika.
Should be noted that this is a technology that took years and years to develop, and that it could be employed right here, right now is beyond good fortune. More traditional vaccines bourn from more well established methods (J&J, Astra), while fine, aren't showing as much efficacy. And full disclosure, I opted to receive the J&J vaccine in March because it was a better known quantity.
 
Archer
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Tony C. Tony C.
Those were clinical trials, Al.

Yes, in humans.

Tony C. Tony C.
- mRNA vaccines have never been used on humans previously

Some good advice here, Tony...

Tony C. Tony C.
Please try to argue more honestly.
 
Archer
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pdxleaf pdxleaf
There's a reason that pharmaceuticals advertise on television.

Just as an aside, I have to say I find it very jarring to see these commercials on American TV, as they are not allowed here. Not sure about other parts of the world, but you can always tell when you have a US station on, because of these adverts on all the time.

There's always a profit motive in these things, and personally I have a difficult time with these companies in some respects, but they also make the drugs that keep me alive and allow me to have the life I have right now. I don't see them as "all good" or "all bad"...
 
Tony C.
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Archer Archer
Some good advice here, Tony...

I thought that it would be obvious that I was referring to actual use in a broad population.
 
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