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sirtaifun
·I'm not arguing against vaccines, but this is just one illustration of why the binary vaccinated=good, unvaccinated=bad meme is overly simplistic, if not misleading.
Vaccinated roll-call
Locked
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sirtaifun
·And yes if you`re vaccinated it`s no guarantee that you will not die from the virus but most likely you will not as far as we know nowaday and more likely you will be no walking death sentence for anyone else.
Maybe I`m a bit to harsh but I wonder whats not be understand the main goal in all efforts `round the globe is to slow down the infection and to lower the death toll not more or less.
Healing and preventing is the next step.
For preventing I`m sure we will have a jab at last every year like against the flu.
Maybe I`m a bit to harsh but I wonder whats not be understand the main goal in all efforts `round the globe is to slow down the infection and to lower the death toll not more or less.
Healing and preventing is the next step.
For preventing I`m sure we will have a jab at last every year like against the flu.
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Tony C.
··Ωf Jury memberplus the fact that if you are vaccinated you are less dangerous for all others.
That would only be true of the vaccinated who behave safely. A vaccinated person who behaves unsafely would be more dangerous to others than an unvaccinated person who behaves safely.
In a broad sense, though, it is true that as vaccinations lower the number of people being hospitalized, that, in turn, benefits everyone.
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hmmmcamu
·
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p4ul
·True.
Apologies, but it is not ‘True’ imho.
According to this, https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32691881/. 15.6% of unvaccinated Covid positive are asymptomatic…get a vaccine.
And this, https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2101927 infers that only 1%ish of the vaccinated contract Covid post vaccination.
Get vaccinated.
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gatorcpa
··ΩF InvestiGatorThe only principle consistent with logic and thus with humanity is that if we want to “live long and prosper” (as Vulcans often say) we must use logic and pursue our life-serving values.
Just as we have to be careful what food we put in our bodies, we have to be careful what information we consume.
gatorcpa
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Archer
··Omega Qualified WatchmakerMuch of the spreading at this point is the result of vaccinated people behaving unsafely, as they are less likely to show symptoms, and many therefore falsely assume that they are "safe" around other people.
They are safe around other fully vaccinated people. This is not a problem of vaccinated people, it's a problem of unvaccinated people for the most part.
Vaccinated people will have lower viral loads, and are far less likely to spread this to others than unvaccinated people would be.
I think at this point, those who are fully vaccinated are over being restricted for the sake of people who refuse to help themselves, and I don't blame them.
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Tony C.
··Ωf Jury memberApologies, but it is not ‘True’ imho.
According to this, https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32691881/. 15.6% of unvaccinated Covid positive are asymptomatic…get a vaccine.
And this, https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2101927 infers that only 1%ish of the vaccinated contract Covid post vaccination.
If you're going dispute an assertion seriously, you'll need to do better than that. No one suggested that anything like all unvaccinated people who are infected show symptoms.
As for your "only 1%ish of the vaccinated contract Covid post vaccination" assertion, it is misleading. The true numbers are likely higher, as any careful reading of the data would demonstrate.
Edited:
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Tony C.
··Ωf Jury memberThey are safe around other fully vaccinated people. This is not a problem of vaccinated people, it's a problem of unvaccinated people for the most part.
Vaccinated people will have lower viral loads, and are far less likely to spread this to others than unvaccinated people would be.
No, they are not "safe", as evidenced by many examples of clusters of vaccinated people becoming infected.
Your point about the viral loads is largely true, but again, in the real world, you can't accurately talk about safety without also taking behavior into account. And far too many who have been vaccinated have altered their behavior in unsafe ways.
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Archer
··Omega Qualified WatchmakerNo, they are not "safe", as evidenced by many examples of clusters of vaccinated people becoming infected.
But as you have pointed out, most people who are vaccinated don't even show symptoms if they catch Covid, and very few actually get sick. So I'm not really sure what it is you are trying to say here.
If everyone was vaccinated, this would not be a big issue, so again this is a problem of the unvaccinated, not the vaccinated.
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sirtaifun
·No, they are not "safe"
All in all we are forced by several reasons getting back to "normal" so anyone who decide not be vaccinated getting high risks that should be clear.
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sirtaifun
·If everyone was vaccinated, this would not be a big issue, so again this is a problem of the unvaccinated, not the vaccinated.
I know several people that can`t take the jab `cause of several personal bad health conditions it`s not their fault but they can`t take it.
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Tony C.
··Ωf Jury memberBut as you have pointed out, most people who are vaccinated don't even show symptoms if they catch Covid, and very few actually get sick. So I'm not really sure what it is you are trying to say here.
As I'm sure you know, these vaccines are "non-sterilizing", so while the risk of hospitalization and death is reduced, those who are vaccinated can still spread the virus, and not only to the unvaccinated.
I'm not suggesting that there should be eternal lockdowns, but it's important to understand what the vaccines can and cannot do.
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Archer
··Omega Qualified WatchmakerSadly that is true!
I know several people that can`t take the jab `cause of several personal bad health conditions it`s not their fault but they can`t take it.
Yes, I realize not everyone can get a vaccine, which is why it is important to get as many people who can be vaccinated, vaccinated.
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Archer
··Omega Qualified WatchmakerAs I'm sure you know, these vaccines are "non-sterilizing", so while the risk of hospitalization and death is reduced, those who are vaccinated can still spread the virus, and not only to the unvaccinated.
Yes, I fully understand all this, which is why your posts are so puzzling. You keep repeating the same things that I have already acknowledged, as if they are somehow changing the discussion. Yes, vaccinated people can get Covid. Yes, they can get sick in rare instances. They can transmit it to others, but are far less likely to do do than unvaccinated people would be. But the greatest risk by far is to unvaccinated people, not to vaccinated people.
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dsio
··Ash @ ΩFI’m on the waiting list for Pfizer here in Australia, hopefully won’t be too long but we’re pretty far behind the rest of the world supply wise at the moment which is why New South Wales is in such bad shape right now
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p4ul
·If you're going dispute an assertion seriously, you'll need to do better than that. No one suggested that anything like all unvaccinated people who are infected show symptoms.
As for your "only 1%ish of the vaccinated contract Covid post vaccination" assertion, it is misleading. The true numbers are likely higher, as any careful reading of the data would demonstrate.
Careful reading of what data, please?
Also,
“Muchof the spreading at this point is the result of vaccinated people behaving unsafely, astheyare less likely to show symptoms, and many therefore falsely assume that they are "safe" around other people.”
do you have data for this, please?
Thank you
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