Vaccinated roll-call

Professor

The biggest problem India and African countries will have in months and years to come will be that the wealthier nations of Europe and North America that bailed them out during past famines won't have the resources to do so now.
Disruptions in shipping, both "accidental" and natural will increase these difficulties.
The Four Horsemen are riding high these days but the general public hasn't realized it yet because news services are too focused on the day to day drama fests to see the long view.

p4ul

No. Their biggest problem will be mass death NOW.

Forget ‘bailing out’ this is a human struggle, if we ‘wealthy’ nations do not support our neighbours then humanity could well be screwed.

Most viruses change if they have enough hosts to carry them - viruses care not a shit if you are black, brown, yellow or white, Brit, euro or murcan.......you are just a host.

Get your shot, wear a mask. FFS.

Lecture over, anger subsiding, no offence meant, yeah you are sort of right but understating IMHO.

Professor

I see emotion caused you to miss the point.
The "wealthier" nations are no longer that much wealthier.

Anyone on here is in the top 10% wealthiest of the world.

The USA would love to vaccinate everyone on the planet, but the cold equations strike deep. The only American vaccines we are sending to other countries like Canada and Mexico are those not approved by our own health services and manufactured by a third rate company with serious quality control issues.

Give the vaccine intellectual rights to anyone who can manufacture vaccines. By the way, those rights are not property of the USA.

That won't change so long as we need the best for our own population.

Here you miss my point, we are all at risk....ALL! And it is ongoing until we are all safe.

IIRC India said much the same back when they thought they had a handle on it.

India said it handle on Covid? I missed that, can you reference it for me please?


India has battled famine every few decades for thousands of years. The more recent plagues of locusts are just the beginning.
There have been famines in India that killed off one third of the populations of affected regions, a much higher death rate than Covid so far.


So far.


Contrary to popular belief Europe and North America are no longer the world's pantry.
Too much land has been put to use growing low grade Soy beans to make bio fuels in the last decade.
South America has fallen into the same trap. They grow quick money crops for export to China rather than feeding their own.

Over use of ground water has collapsed aquifers in California. Agriculture there is on the ropes.

This would appear to be a problem of their own making?


Sending enough food out to feed a Billion or so people is no longer in the cards.
Buying the food to do so is not a viable option since those we could have brought from are now themselves on the ropes.
The Ukraine has always been the bread basket of Europe. I have to wonder if that could still hold true considering the constant threat of invasion by Russia, who have had their own plagues of locusts lately.

Starvation kills as readily as disease and malnourished people are less likely to survive infections of any kind.

p4ul

A virus will indeed kill the starving, protect them and another solution may be found.

This would appear to be a problem of their own making?

p4ul

@Professor Your reply seems flawed and angry to me, I will leave you to enjoy your point of view.
Stay well.

Professor

No one is with holding permission to manufacture vaccines.

glownyc

False.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-03...-pandemic-around-the-world-in-months/13260178
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/wor...ory-licence-to-produce-covid-19-vaccines-for/

"IPR holders would need to provide technology partnerships to accompany IP licenses, proactively share know-how and sub-contract to manufacturers without undue geographic or volume restrictions," Fore said.

She stressed that this challenge requires not forced Intellectual Property waivers but proactive partnership and cooperation.

Professor

Just acquire the license.
Is anyone denying the right of suitable facilities the right to acquire the licensing?
Your second link is about government red tape in Canada. The manufacturer hasn't met their obligation to prove they can in fact perform, simple as that. When they meet the requirements they will get a license.
This is not a matter of generic or bootleg viagra, this is serious.

https://www.newindianexpress.com/wo...manufacture-of-covid-19-vaccines-2286988.html

How did blocking all exports of Indian manufactured anti-viral drugs like Remdesivir work out in this situation? Have they waived any IP rights that you know of?
Just get a licensing agreement.

glownyc

You said "No one is with holding permission to manufacture vaccines."

From the article I linked "
Currently, pharmaceutical companies that invent the vaccines have control over who is issued a licence to produce it."

Your statement is false.

Article 31bis
1. The obligations of an exporting Member under Article 31(f) shall not apply with respect to the grant by it of a compulsory licence to the extent necessary for the purposes of production of a pharmaceutical product(s) and its export to an eligible importing Member(s) in accordance with the terms set out in paragraph 2 of the Annex to this Agreement.

2. Where a compulsory licence is granted by an exporting Member under the system set out in this Article and the Annex to this Agreement, adequate remuneration pursuant to Article 31(h) shall be paid in that Member taking into account the economic value to the importing Member of the use that has been authorized in the exporting Member. Where a compulsory licence is granted for the same products in the eligible importing Member, the obligation of that Member under Article 31(h) shall not apply in respect of those products for which remuneration in accordance with the first sentence of this paragraph is paid in the exporting Member.

3. With a view to harnessing economies of scale for the purposes of enhancing purchasing power for, and facilitating the local production of, pharmaceutical products: where a developing or least developed country WTO Member is a party to a regional trade agreement within the meaning of Article XXIV of the GATT 1994 and the Decision of 28 November 1979 on Differential and More Favourable Treatment Reciprocity and Fuller Participation of Developing Countries (L/4903), at least half of the current membership of which is made up of countries presently on the United Nations list of least developed countries, the obligation of that Member under Article 31(f) shall not apply to the extent necessary to enable a pharmaceutical product produced or imported under a compulsory licence in that Member to be exported to the markets of those other developing or least developed country parties to the regional trade agreement that share the health problem in question. It is understood that this will not prejudice the territorial nature of the patent rights in question.

4. Members shall not challenge any measures taken in conformity with the provisions of this Article and the Annex to this Agreement under subparagraphs 1(b) and 1(c) of Article XXIII of GATT 1994.

Professor

So you believe just anyone can start up a vaccine manufacturing facility from scratch?
You seem to believe there should be zero oversight.
Do you believe the bogus vaccine operations uncovered in Poland and Mexico deserve to be given a license and full access to all information?
This is not herbal viagra. Let every Tom,Dick and Harry start up a line slapping labels on whatever vials they have handy and the bodies will really start piling up.
The only people wanting full waivers on intellectual property are those who want a 100% profit margin with zero responsibility for the finished product.
They are not being denied the right to manufacture the vaccine they have as yet failed to prove they could do so if given permission. Their own lack of expertise and diligence is preventing them from being licensed.
Do you figure you should be allowed to drive a car without first obtaining a license? Do you feel you should be granted a drivers license without first proving you can in fact drive?

glownyc

Me linking an article about a company in Bangladesh with a proven track record for producing vaccines

Professor

Oh really? Just how many mRNA vaccines have they produced in the past?
Believing without question that company's self serving hype on the weight of some one sided article is not the same as diligent research into the nuts and bolts of Covid vaccine research and manufacture.
So far no company demanding full access royalty free used of Moderna's patented formulas has proven they could actually produce these vaccines if they were granted a license. If they could the compulsory license provisions of the TRIP agreement would have already gone into effect.
On top of that Moderna already stated months ago that they would not pursue any patent infringement cases against anyone who could reproduce their vaccine or create a new one using their patent protected research.

The mRNA vaccines are beyond the capabilities of most nations but the Russians are handing out licenses for the Sputnik V vaccine like candy. There are other options.