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Update on Just bought early 50’s Omega 2451 321 Chronograph

airansun
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So, another watch I was too curious about and therefore bought so I could get my hands on it. Been looking for a nice 321 from before the Speedmasters.

I’m assuming it’s a redial, albeit a very good one. [I’d love for someone to prove to me that it’s original!] The movement is clean and doesn’t look abused. The case is worn but doesn’t look to have been polished much. The crown isn’t right, I assume. I have been assured it runs and functions well. It was USD 3.3k.

I submit it because your collective eyes are always sharper than mine alone. It’s not in hand yet; I’ll post better shots when it arrives. I was unable to find a good thread on 2451 Omegas. If anyone has photos of similar dialed Omega chronos, I’d love to see them!

95EC0C7B-4B82-4414-B369-E5CF4AF588AA.jpeg 792328F7-6213-4602-B3EE-78A33C104E46.jpeg FD116D3A-F577-448B-B253-F2A00AEEEED0.jpeg D5B2488F-F8E7-470B-BB13-D93CA886E462.jpeg 255ED9E3-CCD2-49BB-9823-6CD6A0692B3A.jpeg EB00A9B1-FDDC-41B7-A300-09BFC0465719.jpeg 10C1DDD0-5052-4455-938C-022D168D3225.jpeg 973CBAB2-366A-4350-B4C4-B5895B595F81.jpeg 9E1AF68B-D044-40CD-80E3-E8A592C3AC43.jpeg 20AA7839-875B-4855-81C7-A6AA942D66D0.jpeg
 
Larry S
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Not an expert in these but as a collector there is nothing here that screams re-dial. Medico dials are always a bit odd. Everything is clean and perfectly positioned. Patina is even and attractive.
 
Larry S
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Shit...Lesson ...don't do this while holding with a financial institution. Redial...
 
cristos71
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It's an odd one, the quality of some of the printing is really good, but to my eyes there are too many mistakes and I say re-dial. The Ω logo looks clumsy, and the M, E and A in "Omega" look really thick. As has been noted the lumed hands with an un-lumed dial, although if you look at the 4 and 5 'o clock markers they appear to have some lume on them. With a dial of this age if the ends of those markers had originally been lumed I'd expect to see a 'shadow' or some residue or something still visible on the dial, here nothing, just a super clean dial. The gold dial markers also all seem to have white sides, I'd expect them to be applied and all gold.
 
Larry S
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its a dammed good re-dial ... but the lume hands / no dial lume is an issue.
 
cristos71
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cristos71 cristos71
...although if you look at the 4 and 5 'o clock markers they appear to have some lume on them....

Edit:

I'd been looking at this picture when I said this, but after looking at the other pictures again it's clear that the 4 and 5 have no lume on them either and that must be the white sides of the markers

539145-36cca636cc56d665fecc28727470dbd5.jpg
 
dennisthemenace
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Larry S Larry S
its a dammed good re-dial ... but the lume hands / no dial lume is an issue.
I'd say it's a pretty poor redial. How many different fonts for the numbers do you expect to see on one dial?
 
ConElPueblo
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dennisthemenace dennisthemenace
I'd say it's a pretty poor redial. How many different fonts for the numbers do you expect to see on one dial?

As long as it is consistent within one, eh, setting I don't find it that odd. The seconds track can have flat top threes while the subdials could have the rounded variety, for instance. The only really obvious sign of redialing I see is the odd Omega logo, which I have seen on other redials. The lack of lume on the dial and the mismatch between dial and case wear (and the somewhat put-together look of the movement) makes me sure some sort of work has been carried out...

@airansun - one of my favourite watches is a watch that could have been the twin of yours: wrong hands, redialed/service dial in a worn case, wrong logo, lovely chronograph movement 😁

359991-a51be8f6c342bf80dc752ff75c685313.jpg

If you are happy with yours and like the look and price you paid for it, there's nothing stopping you enjoying it 😀
 
Larry S
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My point exactly...Someone put some craft and effort into this dial. We've seen plenty of shit redials .. this aint on of them.
 
dennisthemenace
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Larry S Larry S
My point exactly...Someone put some craft and effort into this dial. We've seen plenty of shit redials .. this aint on of them.
So different styles of font on the subdials are acceptable?
 
airansun
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ConElPueblo ConElPueblo
The lack of lume on the dial and the mismatch between dial and case wear (and the somewhat put-together look of the movement) makes me sure some sort of work has been carried out...

I did notice the mismatch between the case wear and the dial. It made me wonder if the movement and dial came from another case, maybe a gold one that was melted down back in the day (the watch is coming from Europe) and the dialed movement sat around in a drawer until this case turned up. Of course, the case may look better in person; the photos make it hard to tell.

Question 1 - I’m interested in what prompts your comment that the movement looks ‘somewhat put-together’?

Question 2 - is it always the case that lumed hands must be accompanied by a lumed dial? I feel like I’ve seen dressy watches made just after WW2 that only had lumed hands and not lumed dials, but I suppose they’ve ALL been redials?

Once it arrives, I’ve examined it and my watchmaker gives it his seal of approval, I’ll be happy (or not). If I wasn’t taking a risk, this process would be a lot less interesting, to me anyway.
 
ConElPueblo
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airansun airansun
Question 1 - I’m interested in what prompts your comment that the movement looks ‘somewhat put-together’?

Question 2 - is it always the case that lumed hands must be accompanied by a lumed dial? I feel like I’ve seen dressy watches made just after WW2 that only had lumed hands and not lumed dials, but I suppose they’ve ALL been redials?

Once it arrives, I’ve examined it and my watchmaker gives it his seal of approval, I’ll be happy (or not). If I wasn’t taking a risk, this process would be a lot less interesting, to me anyway.

1. Yeah, scratch that one. I just had a better look at it 😬 For some reason I thought that the coupling bridge ought to have a different colour tone than it has.

2. With vintage Omega this is always the case (possibly bar some 30's references I don't know...). I'd say that it is the overwhelming majority of vintage watches in general, too.
 
airansun
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So, is there any sort of reference work for these Omegas? I know not to expect MWO level, but some reference that has good photographs and intelligent discussion?
 
airansun
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UPDATE

The watch arrived yesterday. Another instance of sloppy packaging, but again I got off lucky, the watch was fine.

Wound it and it started easily. But, with the minute hand at around 27 minutes, the chrono second hand caught against it. Off to the watchmaker.

Watchmaker examined it closely. Apart from other dirt, there are hairs in the movement 😲; he brought me a loupe and showed me. White hairs that looked more like animal hair than people hair. Rodent maybe? 🤮 The watch was running weakly.

Good news: the watch is much better in person and the dial, in particular, looks completely original. I asked him to take photos of the inside-dial surface when he gets that far.

The seller’s photos made the case flaws look worse than I think they are; the damage on the back of the case is from a NATO-style strap. Other than some mild dings, the case seems to be in good, unpolished condition.

Finally, despite everything, the chronograph functions smoothly. The movement did not look damaged, so I’m hoping that once cleaned and serviced, it’ll be fine. What if the animal hairs are from the movement sitting in a drawer somewhere after the original gold case had been stripped away been sold?

C4F78A62-FCCD-4889-B8C7-4893084420E2.jpeg 7B5A60FF-286E-4C04-B00F-89813A201896.jpeg 75C883D2-BEEE-4A2C-A31C-3F713548F7D8.jpeg


More good news: the incorrect stem and crystal will be replaced with correct ones.

I apologize I didn’t take photos of the movement or the dial. I promise I will when I get the watch back.

In two months. 🙁
 
georgeszaslavsky
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good luck with having the movement overhauled and the watch back to original condition, I have seen that watch for sale on ebay before but something didn't feel right
 
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