Universal Geneve Watches On Ebay

therealfolkblues · Aug 21, 2020

I just started burrowing down this rabbit hole and it’s quite intimidating reading about all those redials floating around

I’m a sucker for Art Deco and I chose a simple, unpopular model to cut down my chances on landing a redial. I hope I did okay. It’s coming in the mail soon

I’d like to try out something more complicated next and I saw this listing for a triple calendar on eBay

I love the dial but it’s seems quite pricey and the photos aren't the sharpest

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Universal-...552791?hash=item1f152241d7:g:psYAAOSw9BBfNYZ7

What are your thoughts?

Oku · Aug 21, 2020

T therealfolkblues
What are your thoughts?

My thoughts are: Don't look at watches with your mobile phone... The ebay app provides only reduced pics.

One of the original pics:

therealfolkblues · Aug 21, 2020

That's a very good point! Thanks for the tip.

I was stalking the OF listings, and it turned out that this very watch was sold several months ago by one of the good people here. Now it boils down to the problem of pricing...

Oku · Aug 21, 2020

T therealfolkblues
Now it boils down to the problem of pricing...

Well, you see the price in the OF listing, for what it didn't sell and for what it sold.
Do you think we had a price peek during the past months?

Kay995 · Aug 22, 2020

CafeRacer
Are they on eBay?

They where bought off eBay.

Kay995 · Aug 23, 2020

Hello everyone, I found this watch on eBay. I was wondering what everyone thought about it? I love the horned lugs an was able to talk the seller down to $2800 it’s a hard decision for me seeing as I could get the 37mm for $3000 without the horn lugs. What would you do?

mikeo1 · Aug 24, 2020

bgrisso said: ↑
this is a redial, and as such, has quite limited value, only for parts

Harsh and a simply untrue comment-while certainly a redial would not have the same valuation as a good condition original dial, a quality refinished dial might be preferred by some to some shitty original dial or by others with a love for the watch and more limited finances. Plus there's always a chance that an original will show up if you have patience and put the work in the search.
Tip-when there is a difficult question regarding dial originality have the dial removed and the back of the dial inspected , frequently in the 40's,50's, 60's and even 70's dial re finishers scribed a lot number (usually 4 digits) on the back of the dial to keep track of it. They would also not print the word "swiss" on the bottom of the refinished dial. Nowadays it seems there is a high incidence of deliberate attempts of trickery.

Oku · Aug 24, 2020

mikeo1
They would also not print the word "swiss" on the bottom of the refinished dial.

Some did not, some did. Impossible to attribute a time period to the absence or presence of "Swiss" or "Swiss made".

Oku · Aug 24, 2020

Kay995
Hello everyone, I found this watch on eBay. I was wondering what everyone thought about it? I love the horned lugs an was able to talk the seller down to $2800 it’s a hard decision for me seeing as I could get the 37mm for $3000 without the horn lugs. What would you do?

Question is what size you prefer and which watch you like more. Do you have huge wrists? Have you tried a 34 and 37 mm watch?
What condition has the 37mm watch?

To the watch:
The watch you show has an original dial imho which is not perfect but also not too weathered.

A suggestion: Don't make screenshots with you mobile phone. You should take your time and make the effort to post the original ebay pics. On these pics the dial can be much better seen than on the reduced ones you posted. That's also some kind of courtesy to all the members who try to help you.

Kay995 · Aug 24, 2020

I apologize for the photos, Well I like both sizes actually I have small wrists so for now I got the compax I posted yesterday. I couldn’t let it go I had a feeling it was original but didn’t know for sure. And the 37mm is definitely original just has heavy patina on the dial.

Oku · Aug 25, 2020

Kay995
I apologize for the photos, Well I like both sizes actually I have small wrists so for now I got the compax I posted yesterday. I couldn’t let it go I had a feeling it was original but didn’t know for sure. And the 37mm is definitely original just has heavy patina on the dial.

You did well! Looks good on your wrist!
Depends on the patina, but imho with heavy patina, $3000 is too much.

Kay995 · Aug 25, 2020

Thanks a lot, I love it to be honest. I haven’t seen many with those style of lug on Chrono24 or eBay. This was the other watch I was considering now I look at it closely it doesn’t seem to have such a bad dial.

mikeo1 · Aug 25, 2020

Oku
Some did not, some did. Impossible to attribute a time period to the absence or presence of "Swiss" or "Swiss made".

??? Wasn't trying to attribute any time period to the watch or dial or watches/dials in general; simply saying that refinished dials often have an "id" number hand scratched on the back and are also often missing the notation of "swiss" on the bottom of the face side

bgrisso · Aug 26, 2020

mikeo1
bgrisso said: ↑
this is a redial, and as such, has quite limited value, only for parts

Harsh and a simply untrue comment-while certainly a redial would not have the same valuation as a good condition original dial, a quality refinished dial might be preferred by some to some shitty original dial or by others with a love for the watch and more limited finances. Plus there's always a chance that an original will show up if you have patience and put the work in the search.
Tip-when there is a difficult question regarding dial originality have the dial removed and the back of the dial inspected , frequently in the 40's,50's, 60's and even 70's dial re finishers scribed a lot number (usually 4 digits) on the back of the dial to keep track of it. They would also not print the word "swiss" on the bottom of the refinished dial. Nowadays it seems there is a high incidence of deliberate attempts of trickery.

I disagree and I think you will find most others will as well, which is important to keep in mind for future resale. Of course sentimental value is potentially different, but this person was asking for advice on an eBay purchase, it doesn’t apply here.

Larry S · Aug 26, 2020

bgrisso
I disagree and I think you will find most others will as well, which is important to keep in mind for future resale. Of course sentimental value is potentially different, but this person was asking for advice on an eBay purchase, it doesn’t apply here.

+1... We council budding UG addicts NOT to waste their funds on (non UG) redialed or roached out watches.

mikeo1 · Aug 26, 2020

I certainly expected to receive some backlash but i respectfully believe the "council" as a bit misguided. What I feel should be "advised" is how to spot redials and not to pay "original" condition prices for redialed specimens (especially important for the new collector). Again, to advise that a strong cased, fully functional tri with a good quality re-dial is only worth a "parts" value to me is incorrect.

I agree/support the position that a good condition original dial is a very important consideration wrt valuation however I see quite a few watches (some very recently) for sale on this and other sites with horrible "original" dials. They wallow around with the seller touting "originality" (like it's some sort of cure for the terrible dial) but find no buyers, simply because the dial is too far gone to make the watch attractive to anyone. Why aren't sellers offering these watches as "parts", I'd strongly suggest they are certainly no better than a nicely redialed version. I just can't wrap my head around the purported "intrinsic" value of a really hammered original dial on any watch. Additionally, I'd consider what is better for the watch itself, most of these complicated watches are far more than "jewelry" but more so testaments to the art of timekeeping and watch making; relegating these watches to the parts bin because of a re-dial is for me a travesty, particularly by a group of people who supposedly place a high value on their history

I'll take any "otherwise" perfect redialed tri compax you can send me @ $1200/ea (which I believe is above the "parts" price); same case for any redialed Rolex 5513's @ $3000 and the list goes on. Original, period correct, dials do come around and fitting one would make either of these currently redialed watches a great "investment" in my opinion and purchasing them (at the right price) extends their legacy whether the "ship comes in" or not.

bgrisso · Aug 26, 2020

In terms of parts prices in my experience for an OS Tri a complete and running mvmt could be around 750-1k, a case (including pushers, correctors, crown) could be around 1k, a complete hand set perhaps 500, and the day, month, and moon discs at least 500, that’s assuming all parts are completely correct and in good condition. So that’s around 3k, again that’s just rough ballpark. I don’t think you could get an otherwise completely correct Tri in good condition (aside from redial) for anywhere near 1200, unless you get lucky.

Oku · Aug 27, 2020

mikeo1
??? Wasn't trying to attribute any time period to the watch or dial or watches/dials in general; simply saying that refinished dials often have an "id" number hand scratched on the back and are also often missing the notation of "swiss" on the bottom of the face side

If you carefully read my post, I didn't deny the ID on the back of a redial. Many collectors know that. However, usually it is not possible to inspect the back of a dial before purchasing a watch. Even today, redialers scratch a number on the back of the dial.

Concerning the time period, you said:

mikeo1
frequently in the 40's,50's, 60's and even 70's dial re finishers scribed a lot number (usually 4 digits) on the back of the dial to keep track of it. They would also not print the word "swiss" on the bottom of the refinished dial.

To me it sounds like a dating which is simply impossible. You will find or miss "Swiss" or "Swiss made" on redials of any time period.
And there are also original dials without that scripting.
To sum it up: a missing "Swiss (made)" is a first sign of a redial, but not a proof and it was left out during all decades.

Oku · Aug 27, 2020

Kay995
Thanks a lot, I love it to be honest. I haven’t seen many with those style of lug on Chrono24 or eBay. This was the other watch I was considering now I look at it closely it doesn’t seem to have such a bad dial.

In my experience, judging such dials just by pics doesn't do them justice. Some dials really look awful, some are quite nice despite their weathered look on pics.
Apart from that, I prefer the look of your new watch to the weathered 37mm one.

rolokr · Aug 27, 2020

Oku
If you carefully read my post, I didn't deny the ID on the back of a redial. Many collectors know that. However, usually it is not possible to inspect the back of a dial before purchasing a watch. Even today, redialers scratch a number on the back of the dial.

Concerning the time period, you said:

To me it sounds like a dating which is simply impossible. You will find or miss "Swiss" or "Swiss made" on redials of any time period.
And there are also original dials without that scripting.
To sum it up: a missing "Swiss (made)" is a first sign of a redial, but not a proof and it was left out during all decades.

The only UG without Swiss are Compurs and TDMP ?

Universal Geneve Watches On Ebay

therealfolkblues

Oku

therealfolkblues

Oku

Kay995

Kay995

mikeo1

Oku

Oku

Kay995

Oku

Kay995

mikeo1

bgrisso

Larry S

mikeo1

bgrisso

Oku

Oku

rolokr

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