Tri-compax with chronometre dial?

Burr · Nov 1, 2019

Hi all, this started within another thread and wanted to get the experts thoughts on this tri compax with a chronometre dial, is it legit? It was sold on Matthew Bain and pics are below.

Listing: https://www.matthewbaininc.com/watch-details/2977

What’s been questioned thus far:

- movement lacks “adjusted” as seen on other non-chronograph chronometre UG movements. I’ve read in this forum that “unadjusted” movements were typically sold in the US. Maybe chronograph movements with chronometre standards at the time did not require adjustments? The movement does have a serial number though.

- case back states 22297 2 and this dial is typically seen on ref 22297/3. Before it was sold, I was able to confirm the seller that the case size without crown is 34.6mm which seems in line with 22297/2. Has anyone ever seen this dial on ref 22297/2? Maybe a service or transitional dial?

- indicies slightly overlap with bottom sub dial. Has anyone seen this before?

Lurk41 · Nov 1, 2019

The indices should be cut to avoid the overlap so the dial was touched at least a bit.

I never saw a tri-compax chronometre/chronometer but I cannot say for sure it never existed. Now, "chronometre" with nothing on the movement? If not repainted, at lease it is a franken

edit: I've just spotted the "unadjusted" marking. It is on the chronograph bridge

edit2: does someone know when UG started to mount incabloc? I always thought it was a Zenith improvement?

Burr · Nov 1, 2019

Lurk41
The indices should be cut to avoid the overlap so the dial was touched at least a bit.

I never saw a tri-compax chronometre/chronometer but I cannot say for sure it never existed. Now, "chronometre" with nothing on the movement? If not repainted, at lease it is a franken

edit: I've just spotted the "unadjusted" marking. It is on the chronograph bridge

edit2: does someone know when UG started to mount incabloc? I always thought it was a Zenith improvement?

oops, meant to say previous known UG chronometre graded movements had “adjusted” instead of “unadjusted” - I made the edit in my op

Mazoue · Nov 1, 2019

Burr
- case back states 22297 2 and this dial is typically seen on ref 22297/3. Before it was sold, I was able to confirm the seller that the case size without crown is 34.6mm which seems in line with 22297/2. Has anyone ever seen this dial on ref 22297/2? Maybe a service or transitional dial?

My understanding is that the 22297 models all had the same case. The sub-reference (1, 2 or 3) relates to the combination of dial and hands.

Mazoue · Nov 1, 2019

Burr
What’s been questioned thus far:

- movement lacks “adjusted” as seen on other non-chronograph chronometre UG movements. I’ve read in this forum that “unadjusted” movements were typically sold in the US. Maybe chronograph movements with chronometre standards at the time did not require adjustments? The movement does have a serial number though.

- case back states 22297 2 and this dial is typically seen on ref 22297/3. Before it was sold, I was able to confirm the seller that the case size without crown is 34.6mm which seems in line with 22297/2. Has anyone ever seen this dial on ref 22297/2? Maybe a service or transitional dial?

- indicies slightly overlap with bottom sub dial. Has anyone seen this before?

Add to that list of concerns:

- the complete absence of any sign of lume plots having been present on the dial

- the top sub-dial does not seem to sit centrally (notice how the printed circle seems to have more space below than above)

- very dark printing in some areas, particularly that top sub-dial

Larry S · Nov 1, 2019

My 22297 2 ... if it doesn’t look like this ... it’s not correct.

bgrisso · Nov 1, 2019

In addition to many other issues, where is the case serial ?

Burr · Nov 1, 2019

Mazoue
My understanding is that the 22297 models all had the same case. The sub-reference (1, 2 or 3) relates to the combination of dial and hands.

I was going off the below time chronicle article that said the 22297/3 was a 35mm case and the 22297/1 and 22297/2 were 34mm cases.

https://www.timepiecechronicle.com/features/reference-guide-universal-geneve-tri-compax-1960-to-1969

Burr · Nov 1, 2019

Based on all these issues, do you reckon it’s a straight up fake or a franken? Still interested to know if chronometre was ever printed on a tri compax dial, especially with the below article, that was posted in another thread states that UG did make chronographs with chronometre on the dial

edit: came across the below thread where there was a newer dial in a older case, maybe that’s what happened here too making this a franken? This thread is also interesting because there pics posted of other tri compax models with dials you wouldn’t expect from that era

https://omegaforums.net/threads/universal-geneve-tri-compax-22297-2.64541/

bgrisso · Nov 1, 2019

I think the dial is reprinted, with Chronometre added, I'm not sure what is going on with the case and case back, perhaps the caseback is completely fabricated, with wrong reference stamped and missing serial, or who knows?

Anyhow I wouldn't use it as an example or reference.

To add insult to injury, it looks like a service is needed for the chrono reset 🙄

Burr · Nov 1, 2019

Yeah I guess it’s hard to say. What’s your takes on the number on the movement, reading 1110. Does anyone know what that means?

Larry S · Nov 1, 2019

It’s a put together watch. These are desirable and rare with small pushers. Another ding for this dealer.

Tri-compax with chronometre dial?

Burr

Lurk41

Burr

Mazoue

Mazoue

Larry S

bgrisso

Burr

Burr

bgrisso

Burr

Larry S

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