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  1. Mr.H

    Mr.H Jul 8, 2016

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  2. gatorcpa

    gatorcpa ΩF InvestiGator Staff Member Jul 8, 2016

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    Oh, I get it. A prototype? :p:D
    gatorcpa
     
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  3. TNTwatch

    TNTwatch Jul 8, 2016

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    It's the *direct* centre second of the ETA 2408 that is different from those watches. The direct centre second was invented by IWC in 1948.

    I'm not so sure. Can you post some pictures of similar dials from the 40s or 50s?

    It's very unlikely a new and small watch company could be so revolutionary but no one has heard about.
    But with the same "control number"? Afaik, only fake watches have the same ID numbers...
     
  4. Mr.H

    Mr.H Jul 8, 2016

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    I have never linked to this kit, I've seen it before, I think there are two different stories on-line about it using the same picture, it's obviously a Atlantic sized box so unless the box was adapted by the DoD to take all the contents (test/sample kit maybe?) or by someone else it obv. doesn't fit the norm!

    Regards
    Mr.H
     
  5. AAAKK

    AAAKK First listing in the ΩF B2B phone book Jul 8, 2016

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    Just wanted to add to this interesting conversation. Here is a reply l received from Milus some time ago:

    Hello,

    This model 40.81 was produced by a company that no longer exists since 1999.
    We have unfortunately no information and the former owners all passed away.
    When the factory was closed the removal company accidently destroyed filing cabinets full of memorabilia and everything went into smoke.

    Best regards
    MARIA MARCASSA

    MILUS INTERNATIONAL SA
    Rte de Reuchenette 19
    CH - 2502 Biel-Bienne

    So as previously noted, apparently no records exist. And any connection the current Milus has to the original is basically in name only. I own this Milus reference; as already noted, extremely unlikely from the 40's. It's actually a cool little watch, about 36mm, and I like it for what it is.
     
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  6. TNTwatch

    TNTwatch Jul 8, 2016

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    So this proves Mr. Vargas's statement that Milus verified his watches was not true.

    Can you post some internal pictures of your watch?
     
  7. Mr.H

    Mr.H Jul 8, 2016

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    Its the same set I think pictured both times, if you look at the nicks/scratches etc they're the same -- 814 is a made up kit/story I think .. or faintly possible a DoD sample kit

    Regards
    Mr.H
     
  8. AAAKK

    AAAKK First listing in the ΩF B2B phone book Jul 8, 2016

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    I've never had the caseback off, but I'll see if I can remove it tomorrow. Just all the stylistic cues always said circa '60 to me
     
  9. gatorcpa

    gatorcpa ΩF InvestiGator Staff Member Jul 8, 2016

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    Please let us know if your watch has a serial number, either on the movement or case. It might be between the lugs like a Rolex.

    Thanks,
    gatorcpa
     
  10. TNTwatch

    TNTwatch Jul 8, 2016

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    I mis-typed the company - it's actually Zenith with the 133 movement in 1948. http://www.timezone.com/2002/09/24/the-pursuit-of-center-seconds-part-2/
    That dial is very different in style to your watch. Hands, numeral and arrow markers, and surface finish are all different. They are certainly a decade or more different.
     
  11. AAAKK

    AAAKK First listing in the ΩF B2B phone book Jul 8, 2016

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    Definitely not marked with a serial number on the outer case. I'll see if I can verify if the movement is marked.
     
  12. rcs914

    rcs914 Jul 9, 2016

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    I think if we apply Occam's Razor to this we all know the answer - either we have the most technically advanced wrist watch in the world produced in small quantities and sold only to the government in 1941 that had features and a movement not seen for another 20 years, or we have a mistaken historian and the watch has common features from the 1960s. I know which I believe to be the case.

    I'm debating the kindest way I can reply to Mr. Vargas, or if I should at all. While there is the (not so great) part of me that LOVES to correct people when they are unequivocally wrong, this isn't a particularly admirable trait. It is evident that he has built at least a part of his reputation on these kits and it is completely understandable that he may want to double down when confronted with evidence that changes his world view. I care only in that I like factual and complete information and it bugs the crap out of me when people repeat hearsay as truth. But in the overall scheme of things, what does it matter?
     
  13. redpcar

    redpcar Jul 9, 2016

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    How about if you simply refer him to this thread?
     
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  14. Mr.H

    Mr.H Jul 9, 2016

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    Milus Jet-Master .. Looks like it kind of kills off the last hope of the Snow-Star even coming close to the date needed

    Very strange that a company that now sells $250k time pieces didn't work that out ... Well they certainly ran with it, I think the 2000 limited edition Snow-Star Heritage kits netted them close to $9m in just 2 years. Slight loss for me as I know a pair Atlantic/Pacific Barter kits advertised as WWII sold for $15,800 recently
    upload_2016-7-9_17-9-49.png
    upload_2016-7-9_17-10-21.png

    Regards
    Mr.H
     
    Edited Jul 9, 2016
  15. TNTwatch

    TNTwatch Jul 9, 2016

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    The value is in the whole kit, which I think is definitely legitimate, not in the watch's date of manufacture.
     
  16. Mr.H

    Mr.H Jul 9, 2016

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    Ok after a little further research & speaking to a few collectors in this field all roads lead to WWII issue, so it looks like these kits can be firmly placed within the 1941-42 time-frame

    http://www.anaspides.net/military/survival_chits_and_maps.html

    Will pick up a copy of "THE LAST HOPE The Blood Chit Story in hopes of the original watch being pictured

    Rgards
    Mr.H
     
    Edited Jul 9, 2016
  17. flyingout

    flyingout Jul 9, 2016

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    Any clues in the shock protection? My best guess is Novochoc B (old version maybe). There are a couple others I found that are roughly triangular.

    Not that I've found much info for dating that, but all other photos of 2408s that I've seen appear to use Incabloc. Hopefully we'll have another example to compare.

    Safari.png
     
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  18. TNTwatch

    TNTwatch Jul 9, 2016

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    The shock system can be custom ordered with ETA. I've seen the Novochoc mostly on lower tier brands. I guess this was chosen so it could be called Milushoc, whereas Incabloc costs more and cannot be called differently. Both types exist in vintage Milus watches.
     
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  19. AAAKK

    AAAKK First listing in the ΩF B2B phone book Aug 20, 2016

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    Here's a couple of pics of the eta 2472 housed inside
    Milus2.jpg Milus3.jpg
     
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  20. ConElPueblo

    ConElPueblo Aug 21, 2016

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    I'm curious as to what these collectors think of the watch included. Hopefully no-one still believes these are WWII items?