It was not written as an attack on his character or professional credentials - it wasn't meant as an attack at all. But as you said, when someone has "skin in the game" it puts them in a much more defensive position. It also made me reconsider my reply that I was writing to his deleted comment. Essentially I wasn't trying to start an internet fight - I was surprised that he commented to me. But overall I find it fascinating that these kits have been discussed on an number of blogs, etc. in relationship to the re-issued timepiece, and no one even thought to raise the point "Ya know, that really doesn't look like a 1940s watch".

This is what I was going to reply, until I thought better of it:

"John - obviously you deleted your reply to me, and while I recognize that you are a professional historian, it doesn't mean that watches are your specialty. The Milus Snow Star that is included in this kit has a combination of features that simply didn't exist on any watch in 1942 - or even 1952, and didn't start to be common until the late 50s/early 60s. I'm not an expert myself, but the movement in this watch has been identified by others to likely be an ETA 2048, which wasn't produced until the late 1950s."

I didn't delete my original comment - but I did soften how I wrote it:

"Perhaps Vietnam era? That watch does not appear to be made in the 1940s - it has multiple features that were not common on watches till the 1960s."

 

My first thought in front of a cannibal, would not be to trade a swiss watch.
May be a vegetarian cookbook? Though I'm not sure it would fit in this survivor kit.

 

He sent me a PM on facebook with the following statement, as well as a number of links to the original auction documentation. I am not going to argue with him about it, because I feel that it would be an unproductive use of my time. I'm by no means an expert myself - just familiar enough with the various eras of watches to know that these weren't made when they are being purported to have been made. While I certainly sometimes have trouble restraining my desire to point it out when "someone is wrong on the internet" I also have to realize that I don't have a dog in the fight - what's the point? I probably should have realized this before commenting on his facebook post.

His message to me, many of the links point to stuff already posted above:

"These Escape and Evasion Kits were made and used only during WWII.

The Milus “Snow Star” was made during WWII, the ones used in the kit were made in 1941 according to the Milus Records (date of sale as well as serial numbers), they were selected by the US Navy as the watch to be used inside what Pilots and Paratroopers referred to as “Barter Kits.”

The Milus was only used in the “Pacific” Barter Kits as the “Atlantic” Barter Kits has French Gold Francs and British / South African Gold Sovereign Coins and Gold Rings.

Officially they are called “US Navy Escape and Evasion US Navy Escape and Evasion Barter Kit, Atlantic” and US Navy Escape and Evasion Barter Kit South East Asia.”

Here is the official photo of the “Pacific Kit” from the United States Naval History and Heriatge Command, with description.

“US Navy Escape and Evasion Barter Kit, South East Asia Serial# 494

2.88" H x 4.01" W x 1"D

US Navy Escape and Evasion Barter Kits, South East Asia. The case of the kit is made from rubber which was sealed . The kit contains a gold swiss watch with a cloth watch band, two gold rings and a gold pendant with chain. The kits were used by service personnel when they were in enemy territory to aid their escape.

US Navy Escape and Evasion Barter Kits, South East Asia. The case of the kit is made from rubber which was sealed . The kit contains a gold swiss watch with a cloth watch band, two gold rings and a gold pendant with chain. The kits were used by service personnel when they were in enemy territory to aid their escape.

Collection of Curator Branch, Naval History and Heriatge Command”

https://www.flickr.com/photos/usnhistory/5355238650

Here are the “Escape and Evasion Kits”, which are located in the Smithsonian.
http://collections.si.edu/search/results.htm?view=&dsort=&date.slider=&q=Escape+and+Evasion+Kit

Here is the original paperwork from the Department of Defense Logistics Agency when they were auction on August 1st, 1979.

http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t209/smkngun27/E and E Kits for MILUS/7-8-2016 125015 PM.jpg~original

http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t209/smkngun27/E and E Kits for MILUS/7-8-2016 125354 PM.jpg~original

http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t209/smkngun27/E and E Kits for MILUS/7-8-2016 10318 PM.jpg~original

http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t209/smkngun27/E and E Kits for MILUS/7-8-2016 10925 PM.jpg~original

http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t209/smkngun27/E and E Kits for MILUS/7-8-2016 13251 PM.jpg~original

http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t209/smkngun27/E and E Kits for MILUS/7-8-2016 13347 PM.jpg~original "

 

So maybe we should blame a 1978 records clerk at the DoD who started this erroneous paper trail.

 

Honestly there's nothing in that paperwork that states a vintage, or what war they may have been produced for. I still think that they call it a "Southeast Asian" kit is telling. Wouldn't they have called it a "Pacific" kit if it were for WWII?

 

I've read this with interest. Whilst I approach the authenticity of these kits with scepticism, there's a small nagging voice at the back of my brain whispering Antikythera Mechanism.....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antikythera_mechanism

 

Exactly. I don't think any academic historian would want to say anything about the period of origin just based on those papers. The statements at the first half of his reply have nothing to do with those links at the second half. Over here recently, we have a Greek amateur historian who are way more professional than this.

 

DoD writing was too small to read on my screen and I can't copy paste from photobucket to enlarge
Smithsonian makes no reference to age.
Who started the 1942 story?
The Milus team should know better. Any street corner watchmaker would know this watch is from the '60s. Surely someone else has brought this to their attention since the re-release of the Snowman. Snowball? Snowflake? Crap, I already forgot the name of the watch

 

This has been fascinating. A thought I had was that the kits were upgraded with new watches at some point (rather than servicing). The kits themselves seem to me to be WWII era, similar to the Atlantic version, which wouldn't have made sense in the '60s.

 

Very possible, my set has had it's original serial number removed (looks very like a DoD removal) & a new serial number applied & there is a penned number on the case (lower than 50) which may refer to the original stock number
Sorry I was going to upload some pictures but have been working late this week .... will do this w/end

Regards
Mr.H

 

So here are some questions...
1) In the Smithsonian kit, at the following link, what language are the rings written in? https://airandspace.si.edu/collecti...south-east-asia-region-united-states-military

2)The case back as shown earlier in this thread, has a standard slotted case back for opening, when did this become a standard in watches?

 

This contradicts with the story that Milus lost all their archives due to fire in the 50s and the story that the CEO of Milus told that it was a "military historian" who educated them about their watches in these E&E kits.

This contradicts with the story both the OP and I linked to earlier that there were 2 watches in the Atlantic kits:

 

This is a possibility, that along with tagging the kit as for SE Asia.

 

There's a voice in my head coughing Piltdown Man

 

I think this one is put together from parts, no straps, & looks like a standard Atlantic size box

Regards
Mr.H

 

Very odd ... I only quoted the Milus lost records from the Calibremagazine article (http://www.calibremagazine.com/?q=node/588) ... although as I took that article as a co-operative advertisement presumed the story must have come direct from Milus

I can find many examples of centre seconds watches from the early 1940's & even 1930's (Omega Medicus) Rolex Oyster/Athlete, Longines Weems etc etc ...... & late 30's early 40's date windows & slightly similar dial layouts Movada's & Zenith watches ... they all fall short of being a quick set date with Cyclops, diamond cut hour markers watch ..... so unless ETA copied a revolutionary Milus movement it must be post war .. I should have mentioned the removed serial number on the outside of my kits case earlier, but it's the only set I've seen like this so wasn't too sure on the kit upgrade with new watch theory

The EE kit same as mine was used in part of a display recently at the Smithsonian I will ask them about the theme ...pretty sure it was WWII

Regards
Mr.H

 

From that link earlier, that same kit seems to have been put together twice. http://www.coloradoprospector.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=391