Hi

Can I play, my 1942 Time capsule, Original box set, Gold, Watch

These box sets were sold off by the US.Gov in 1980

Most of the sets were unopened since the early 1940's & were accompanied at auction by X-ray's of the contents

The kits were issued to WWII airmen sealed inside a rubber block with just a 2 or 3 digit serial number on the outside, contents wrapped in tissue paper so they wouldn't rattle.

This is the Pacific kit intended for barter in places where there was no currency

The watch is a Milus Snow-Star

Regards
Mr.H

 

Is that watch from the early forties?!?

 

Hi
Yes pre 1942 but hard to date exactly as Milus suffered a fire in the late 40's & lost all records. The E&A Barter kits were first issued in 1942 for the Doolittle raid, it was a one way trip & pilots knew they would have to ditch behind enemy lines

Quick set date & Cyclops, It's just fancy wording on the Rolex Date-Just adverts that lead you to believe they invented those features/complications

Regards
Mr.H

 

It's not only the date feature, which was pretty darn rare in the forties to begin with, it's the overall design, incl. the dial layout, lug/case shape, crown design etc. But I know nothing of the brand, so don't take it as an accusation or anything, I'm just baffled by it

 

I'd think 1960s would be the earliest with all that design of the watch.

 

Maybe a look at the movement would be a clue to verify the vintage of the watch.

 

Hi
Here's a interesting read from when Milus rediscovered their watch was used in these E&A kit's & re-released them http://www.calibremagazine.com/?q=node/588
They were supposedly a cutting edge company back in the 40's. The same U.S historian J.Vargas who introduced Milus to this part of their lost history verified my kit & Milus did try to buy it back, but I don't think I will be in the selling mood until 2042
There's not many complete kits known, 1 in the Smithsonian, G.Bush senior has a set, Milus 2 or 3 & a few in private collections
Here's a pic of a original Snow-Star from a kit that was scrapped for it's gold (will add pics of mine when I've time & if I can blue-tac the back off)

Regards
Mr.H

 

A few things can be quickly said:

1. The watch's design is prevalent in the 1960s. Milus may very well have been a cutting edge company, but it's hard to imagine they were 20 years ahead of their time with this watch.
2. The "SWISS MADE" labelling practice didn't begin until around 1950.
3. Not sure who the historian was, but he would have known that Naval Air Force, US Atlantic Fleet was established on 1 January 1943, so the barter kit could not have been made in 1942 or before. Further more, the word Naval was only added to the command title on 30 July 1957, so the kit with the label “IF FOUND RETURN TO COMNAVAIRLANT (CNAL 34) NORFOLK VIRGINIA” could not have been made before that date either.

All that said, there's no question the Milus barter kit is a legitimate piece of kit. It's just the stated date of this specific kit is not really close to reality, IMO. The company has lost its archives, but the US Navy most likely has not. Milus or a true historian could easily check with the Navy about documentation for these kits, just like Omega has done just recently with NASA about the moonwatch.

 

Will add a better set of pictures asap

Are you sure? don't you mean the use of just "SWISS" was move prevalent in the USA market ... a simple google/eBay search throws up dozens of 1940's watches with "SWISS MADE" dials

The Doolittle (Tokyo) raid was 1942 & launch from carrier deck (US Navy), the above link does say the Atlantic Return to Comnavairlant kits were later than the un-marked East/Asia kits

Historian John Vargas credentials http://www.allexperts.com/ep/669-85531/Military-History/John-Vargas.htm

But I know what you mean the watch does look slightly out of place, I put it down to the 100% condition, it throws me every time I take it out, "time capsule" condition is something else

Regards
Mr.H

 

I suspect most if not all of them have refinished dial. Please post some examples you think were made in the 1940s.

But those kits appear to have the exact same watches as yours. There may even be more than one kit bearing the same "control number 814":
http://www.coloradoprospector.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=391

The watch appears to have an ETA 2408 movement, which was first made around late 1950s to 1960s.

http://forums.watchuseek.com/f11/milus-instant-date-328059.html


The back is also about 20 years out of line, in terms of design, for the 1940s period:

Has he cited any documentation from the US Navy? Are his writings on the watch hosted somewhere on the Web?

I've only commented on the style and design of the watch, and never meant anything on its condition. It's a nice watch, regardless, and NOS condition is icing on the cake!

 

Looking at ranfft.de, I'd agree with that. http://www.ranfft.de/cgi-bin/bidfun-db.cgi?10&ranfft&&2uswk&ETA_2408

Honestly, I think this is a scam. A made-up story for a watch company someone bought around 10 years ago in order to give them some credentials. Notice how all the references on the web are from around the time of the re-release, and each look as if they are grounded in the same press release? And who are the "timepiece collectors" who have snapped a lot of these up, making them extremely rare? Guys like this, who bought three at an auction?

That case back is the final nail in the coffin.

I don't buy it.

 

I agree. Those are from the 60s. Nice watches, though.

 

There may be more to the story, like the possibility of documentation from the US Navy, so I would give the story the benefit of the doubt and not have too quick a conclusion to that end yet.

 

The NY Times clipping is legit - that can be verified from their archive. But it specifically states "The Southeast Asia" one - that's going to be Vietnam era, late '60s - which totally fits with the watch. I'm sure that these barter kits were legitimate, but while there may have been ones produced for WWII, this one was certainly made at a later date. The article above from Calibre magazine and the fact that the new Milus company made a reproduction of the watch and said it was from a watch included in a kit from WWII is likely total BS.

With that being said - it is a nice looking watch. IIRC it has to be pre-1968 since it has "waterproof" on the backside. I think that was banned by the FTC in '68.

 

Hi

Thank's admin for moving this from the "Lets see your Vintage Full Setups: Watch, Box and Papers" post

Umm the movement certainly looks like a variant of the ETA 2408 .... I cannot check my watches movement at present for fear of marking the case-back, it's on tight & the original case-back sticker in place. Doe's anyone have a concise history of the ETA 2408's?

I see the Smithsonian Pacific/East Asia Barter kit is no longer on display & they have removed WWII from the title- https://airandspace.si.edu/collecti...south-east-asia-region-united-states-military

Also I cannot now find any of the Milus advertising regarding them presenting G.W Bush Sr. an original Barter kit just before the launch of the Snow-Star Heritage line ... So I guess someone must have pointed out these might not be WWII issue. Fyi George Bush Sr was a US Navy WW2 pilot & he did have to bail on a mission, 8 of his comrades were captured & eaten, so a little bit distasteful of Milus not make any retractions, as the "Cannibal" avoidance properties of these kits was used in advertising the Heritage line
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...rades-eaten-by-their-Japanese-PoW-guards.html

Oh well so US NAVY E&A life barter kit, probably Korea issue it is



Regards
Mr.H

 

I think Korea is still too early, unfortunately. Active hostilities ended in 1953. US troops were in Vietnam as of 1963. Due to the small number of these kits that were evidently produced, I would think that perhaps they were more for use by the crews of the Air America "We are not in Laos" planes.

 

Here's just a few .. lots more on ebay .. just search 1930 or 1940 watch

 

Interesting

http://www.wartimecollectables.com/pacific-e-e-kit.html

 

Seems the kit used to belong to Mr. Vargas. Just found his post mentioning kit 047. Does not say anything about official docs.

https://www.facebook.com/MilusWatches/posts/10151785310696696

 

Here's the supposedly later Atlantic (European theatre) DoD Gold Barter kit