The Timeless Watch Channel from YouTube won’t return Bogart watch [Watches now Returned]

IM0L4 · May 25, 2022

Dan S
Unfortunate that Marco hasn't participated more in the past in the context of watches. He seems thoughtful and articulate. His friend is criticized and suddenly he produces a novel. 🙄

I don’t know him personally as I already said

I tried to suggest some understanding might be useful as a starting point to some practical solutions

Mostly I read here seeking the experience of others as I am enjoying Omega more as I learn more

Unfortunately it seems not everybody has honourable intentions

savka · May 25, 2022

motivated
It's the "potentially" that bothers me. Oisin needs a proper trial. Innocent until proven guilty, made me think of the film 12 Angry Men. I don't know. What if one day we're too quick to condemn an innocent guy or if the sentence becomes disproportionate to the crime.

We have no power over criminal consequences or punishment - there are systems for that sort of thing. However, his position as a public figure is predicated on our approval and we can decide to hold him accountable for his behavior if we so choose. If we collectively consider his behavior, content, or actions unpalatable in any way, we are free to express our disapproval and take our positive attention elsewhere in the marketplace of watch content. It’s really no different than writing a bad review and taking your business somewhere else…

dstfno · May 25, 2022

motivated
"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect" - Mark Twain

Not defending Oisin because he clearly made some bad decisions to say the least but seeing the speed at which cancel culture operates on social platforms, that's scary stuff to witness too.

It's not like the guy isn't digging his own grave. He has a very easy way out, as he admitted to having the watches he could just say he doesn't want to have anything to do with this, apologize for any inconvenience and send the pieces back to the rightful owners asap. Instead he goes online for hours to self victimize.

It's not up to me to pass final judgement but I think the guy is a pathological liar and a douche and I have to admit I enjoy following how this travesty unfolds. He could very well take the crown for "How to wreck your Youtube channel at the speed of light" off Anthony from Timepiece Gentlemen.

Evitzee · May 25, 2022

Very sad story, this. All of us want the OP to retrieve his property, along with others that have been scammed, but unfortunately it's probably not going to happen. Scammers are experts at working the system, delaying and obfuscating, and just being ahead of the law. For every Bernie Madoff, Alan Bond or Elizabeth Holmes, who did fraud on a massive scale for years, there are tens of thousands of low level crooks and scammers that prey on average people. Just last week there was a member here whose close relative was scammed out of her life savings. Suggesting a surrogate person-to-person handover in Milan, or getting the lawyers or police involved just isn't going to fly in a scammer's world at this level of theft. The best we can try to do is derail this guys cashflow on YouTube and social media, and who knows if it is that important to him in the end. He's a first class narcissist, they don't play by the normal rules. In their world it's all about them, and if it doesn't go their way they play the victim card. These guys are very hard to bring to heel.

What I still haven't grasped or understood is the concept of people sending their small, portable and often valuable property (often over international borders) to a YouTube 'influencer' to make a video of the property and post it online. What's the purpose? Maybe the owner wants to sell the property and thinks this will generate online interest? To share his rare stuff with the collector world, maybe. Maybe I'm just too old, but I don't let my watches out of my sight unless it is going to a new owner (after being paid) or is going in for a repair. Other than that they are in my control. It is terrible what has happened to these people who got scammed out of their property. Best advice, be careful who you deal with, too many people are looking to take advantage of people online. It's human nature.

collector1946 · May 25, 2022

I have been polite and understanding all along.... for every question i'm asked.... my answer is this..... I would just like my Gruen watch returning complete with all the provenance please. how hard is this ? thank you all. Ade

motivated · May 25, 2022

collector1946
I have been polite and understanding all along.... for every question i'm asked.... my answer is this..... I would just like my Gruen watch returning complete with all the provenance please. how hard is this ? thank you all. Ade

I hope you get your watch back sooner rather than later. One can only sympathize with what you have gone through.

Waltesefalcon · May 25, 2022

I find it very strange that after the absolutely enormous amount of evidence that this guy has defrauded multiple people out of watches and money, that anyone would come out saying that we need to give him a chance. The simple fact is that he has been in possession of watches that are not his and when asked by the rightful owners to return them he has refused, he owes money for watches to another man and when asked to pay up he has refused. So far he has shown himself to be a thief. He has publicly gone on an outrageous pity party rather than taking that time to mail the watches back to their owners, or paying the other gentleman. What more is needed to demonstrate that this man's intentions are not honorable. There are no mitigating factors in this issue, he has shown that his legs work, he has shown that he has enough money to buy copious amounts of alcohol. If he used his feet to walk to the post office and some of that booze money for postage, the watches would already be back in the hands of their owners.

cvalue13 · May 25, 2022

Evitzee
Suggesting a surrogate person-to-person handover in Milan, or getting the lawyers or police involved just isn't going to fly in a scammer's world at this level of theft. The best we can try to do is derail this guys cashflow on YouTube and social media, and who knows if it is that important to him in the end.

But efficiently “derailing his cash flow” may require generating more facts than are presently available, and generating those more useful facts entails other efforts that might look like the ones you’re here disparaging.

just one person’s view, on how a cigar is not always a cigar *shrug*

motivated · May 25, 2022

Waltesefalcon
I find it very strange that after the absolutely enormous amount of evidence that this guy has defrauded multiple people out of watches and money, that anyone would come out saying that we need to give him a chance.

From a legal standpoint, one of the problems is that the watches were lent to him willfully. So the question becomes: after how long does borrowing become stealing?

repoman · May 25, 2022

motivated
From a legal standpoint, one of the problems is that the watches were lent to him willfully. So the question becomes: after how long does borrowing become stealing?

I'm not a lawyer. But the scammers are usually smart enough to know how to operate here: it gets to "intent". Most places require there be an intent to steal in order for a criminal prosecution of theft, and as long as the scammer keeps saying "yeah yeah, I'm going to ship it back to you", they can operate in this grey area by saying "I intended to give it back, I just didn't get around to it", but there is also reasonableness and the practical side of depriving one of their own property, after the owner has made it clear it must be returned, and a reasonable timeframe and accommodations were given, and yet still nothing is returned, you have a solid case for theft in just about any jurisdiction (at least to my understanding, or at minimum, a case to bring to law enforcement to have them get involved and knock on doors).

Oison is really dumb for a scammer, he's already on record indicating he will not return the stolen property, and is now on record trying to fence the stolen goods, so his legal issues just keep piling up the more he opens his mouth.

motivated · May 25, 2022

repoman
I'm not a lawyer. But the scammers are usually smart enough to know how to operate here: it gets to "intent". Most places require there be an intent to steal in order for a criminal prosecution of theft, and as long as the scammer keeps saying "yeah yeah, I'm going to ship it back to you", they can operate in this grey area by saying "I intended to give it back, I just didn't get around to it", but there is also reasonableness and the practical side of depriving one of their own property, after the owner has made it clear it must be returned, and a reasonable timeframe and accommodations were given, and yet still nothing is returned, you have a solid case for theft in just about any jurisdiction (at least to my understanding, or at minimum, a case to bring to law enforcement to have them get involved and knock on doors).

Oisin's main excuse seems to revolve around problems he's had with customs and shipping watches overseas. Can he be afraid the watch will get lost in transit and be held responsible for the loss ?

Scarecrow Boat · May 25, 2022

motivated
Oisin's main excuse seems to revolve around problems he's had with customs and shipping watches overseas. Can he be afraid the watch will get lost in transit and be held responsible for the loss ?

He should be more afraid to use his sketchy shipping method- “his guy” to get around customs (Oisin’s admission to breaking the law) than having the watch potentially lost through proper methods.

motivated · May 25, 2022

Scarecrow Boat
He should be more afraid of using “his guy” to get around customs (his admission to breaking the law) than having the watch lost using proper methods.

Good point. A sensible individual should reach that conclusion pretty naturally but Oisin may not be that clear-headed.

jsducote · May 25, 2022

motivated
From a legal standpoint, one of the problems is that the watches were lent to him willfully. So the question becomes: after how long does borrowing become stealing?

While there are many, many differences in legal systems around the world, a lender generally need only express his desire once for the return of lent goods. There was no contract between the parties that would state otherwise. There is not usually a "you must wait X years" before a judge will compel return when the lender has been both unequivocal about his desire for return and the borrower has had ample opportunity to return.

motivated
Oisin's main excuse seems to revolve around problems he's had with customs and shipping watches overseas. Can he be afraid the watch will get lost in transit and be held responsible for the loss ?

It's tempting to think we know what's going on in his head and ascribe motivations, but when asked to return the watch he simply said no, he wasn't going to do it.

Screwbacks · May 25, 2022

TexOmega · May 25, 2022

Pretty clear headed to agree to a quid pro quo and then not do the quo. Still.

Caracal25 · May 25, 2022

motivated
Not defending Oisin because he clearly made some bad decisions to say the least but seeing the speed at which cancel culture operates on social platforms, that's scary stuff to witness too.

Getting cancelled because your opinion differs from others is "scary stuff".

Getting cancelled for stealing someones money and possessions is what cancelling is all about...

MPWATCH · May 25, 2022

Being "busy" doesn't justify this behavior. I'd continue to post and make it obvious this person isn't trustworthy.

pete26 · May 25, 2022

cvalue13
I think it was deeply irresponsible and counterproductive for Greek to take that approach, which should be completely obvious to anyone with an iota or sense or experience in handling such disputes - and if you for a moment feel inclined to disagree outloud, just look at how it’s proven and evidenced by the YouTuber’s completely predictable response.

So yeah, if he or others don’t repeat such a counterproductive mistake, I do think it’s worth stating.

But carry on with your pitchforks and torches, I hope you’re successful!

The YouTuber is a thief, why pander to his arrogance?

bnabod · May 25, 2022

What in the fresh hell is this …
I have had my doubts about this guy for a long time but it seems to me that he is just plain lazy . He owns very nice time pieces so the 4 Seiko mod watches can’t be about money? Now the vintage Gruen owned by a famous actor could be worth something but I don’t know anything about the vintage gruen world .
Either way, I sincerely hope that the watches will be returned to their owners and also hope that many collectors will realize that sending a watch to some stranger with a presence on utube in a different country isn’t the brightest of moves.

The Timeless Watch Channel from YouTube won’t return Bogart watch [Watches now Returned]

IM0L4

savka

dstfno

Evitzee

collector1946

motivated

Waltesefalcon

cvalue13

motivated

repoman

motivated

Scarecrow Boat

motivated

jsducote

Screwbacks

TexOmega

Caracal25

MPWATCH

pete26

bnabod

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