Support independent Watchmakers!

ConElPueblo · Oct 20, 2015

U ulackfocus
Wow, a whole 500? The Swiss sell more watches in an hour than that. 🙄 This whole thing reminds me of the grade school kid who makes campaign promises to the entire student body to get a soda machine in the school cafeteria whilst the teachers and principal smirk, knowing it won't happen, and that the district is going in the complete opposite direction by changing pizza day to salad & tofu day.

My cousin managed to get a Coke machine put up in the school cafeteria when he was in grade school...

citizenrich · Oct 20, 2015

ConElPueblo
My cousin managed to get a Coke machine put up in the school cafeteria when he was in grade school...

We had a Coke machine in the dorms @ my school.

His name was Victor Zxxxxxxo.

He was recently in the news. Apparently, he became a serious international Colombian kingpin. Quite infamous. Lol

ConElPueblo · Oct 20, 2015

citizenrich
We had a Coke machine in the dorms @ my school.

His name was Victor Zxxxxxxo.

He was recently in the news. Apparently, he became a serious international Columbian kingpin. Quite infamous.

My cousin hasn't reached those heights yet, but who knows...

PatrickJ · Oct 20, 2015

PatrickJ · Oct 20, 2015

Just send the watch to Omega to service and make it clear leave the dial alone and do not polish. If they have movement parts so be it the cost is higher. Perhaps the only vintage tthat will survive will be the top end models in the UK service starts at £450 with Omega. It could be a good thing no more cheap eBay watches only top end vintage survives instead of paying £200 for a service you pay three times the amount. I support watchmakers but Omega make the watches and the rules not us.

PatrickJ · Oct 20, 2015

Time to do some work and leave this soap opera.

gatorcpa · Oct 20, 2015

P PatrickJ
It could be a good thing no more cheap eBay watches only top end vintage survives instead of paying £200 for a service you pay three times the amount.

Are you that much of an elitist to believe that only the wealthy should be able to afford restoration of a vintage watch?👎

P PatrickJ
I support watchmakers but Omega make the watches and the rules not us.

They make the watches, but should they make the rules? By your standards we should have to turn in all watches when they reach 20 years old, lest they become "cheap eBay watches", due to routine service costs and depreciation. ::facepalm1::

While I think the poll is a waste of time and effort, I am very much in favor of the sentiments expressed here regarding the cutoff of parts sales to suppliers.
gatorcpa

Archer · Oct 20, 2015

U ulackfocus
For the rest of you on the petition bandwagon.....here's a watchmaker's perspective that's been in the business since some of you were in diapers or not even born yet, and he's fed up. Look at the dates on these - 3 and 4 years ago. Nothing new happening here, and the last go 'round with petitions and court rulings caused the Swiss to ratchet up the squeeze they put on independents.

https://omegaforums.net/threads/richemont-group-and-watchmakers.632/

http://www.watchtalkforums.info/forums/thread55317.html

There's more like this on various forums. Hope you all stop and think of the consequences of signing on to this scheme.

EDIT: I just went and restored a few deleted posts by one member so the second thread is now intact as it originally was.

It's interesting that you quote a thread by Nick Hacko as an argument against this survey, when he organized a petition (that I also signed) under the "Save The Time" campaign a few years ago. Clearly he didn't buy the argument that this was doing more harm than good. His campaign was not successful, but at least he tried.

Dennis...seriously...we get your point. We are not children and understand that a "survey" like this with completely predictable results and lacking sound statistical methodology (selection bias anyone?) is not going to single handedly change the minds of the Swiss. The idea that this will "backfire" and give the Swiss what they need to finally crush the independent watchmaker is as ridiculous as the idea that this will suddenly make the Swiss realize they have been wrong all along and cause them to do a 180. It won't do either. It is not going to give them more ammunition, because as we all already know, they have all they need already and their minds are made up, and unless there is action by governments to stop them they will continue on this path.

What this does is raise awareness of what the Swiss are doing, and provides another data point in the fight a real organization is taking to the Swiss. Even here there is some apathy to this situation, and here most are more educated about the issues than most people on forums, not to mention the general public. Forums are really the only place where this subject is going to be talked about in any substantial way, because the "watch media" is certainly not going to do anything. The bloggers and real media are too reliant on the brands for watches to review to risk stepping out of line.

Your argument that this won't cause the Swiss to change their minds is a straw man, because this survey was never intended to do so and no one believes it will.

I can assure you I understand this situation better than most here, as I live it every day. I completed the survey anyway, because hey, a little internet slacktivism never hurt anyone, eh? 😉

If people want to make a real statement, they can do so with their wallets. Unfortunately the "ooh shiny!" will win out over a cause too often for the Swiss to take notice.

Cheers, Al

PatrickJ · Oct 20, 2015

[QUOTE="gatorcpa
Are you that much of an elitist to believe that only the wealthy should be able to afford restoration of a vintage watch?👎

They make the watches, but should they make the rules? By your standards we should have to turn in all watches when they reach 20 years old, lest they become "cheap eBay watches", due to routine service costs and depreciation.

While I think the poll is a waste of time and effort, I am very much in favor of the sentiments expressed here regarding the cutoff of parts sales to suppliers.
gatorcpa

I have done some work and i am back now for a few mins. After 20 years they will try and find parts to fix your wach if they have them. Of course if a watchmaker still has some parts they can do it. But look these things cost you earn and pay then pay again for service if you want to play with expensive toys then pay to maintain them. Omega may in the future provide special vintage considerations if they control service by them and there authorised agents, esespecially if it is profitable for them. The average person pays more but saves in the long run as omega control the quality. But they have to start having sympathy for dials, hands and polishing. The brand image would be elevated if we got rid of the cheap fake, redial crap of eBay. They dictate the rules and we decide to play or not, if it affects Omega bottom line they adjust the rules. That is the free marke. You can of course tell me to get lost but my watch has a warranty, current model and when didiscontinued the model will have enough spare parts to go on for a good while. I purchase from Omega, they service it so I do not have to deal with all the crap.

::facepalm1::

While I think the poll is a waste of time and effort, I am very much in favor of the sentiments expressed here regarding the cutoff of parts sales to suppliers.
gatorcpa[/QUOTE]
Omega will endevou

dennisthemenace · Oct 20, 2015

P PatrickJ
I have done some work and i am back now for a few mins. After 20 years they will try and find parts to fix your wach if they have them. Of course if a watchmaker still has some parts they can do it. But look these things cost you earn and pay then pay again for service if you want to play with expensive toys then pay to maintain them. Omega may in the future provide special vintage considerations if they control service by them and there authorised agents, esespecially if it is profitable for them. The average person pays more but saves in the long run as omega control the quality. But they have to start having sympathy for dials, hands and polishing. The brand image would be elevated if we got rid of the cheap fake, redial crap of eBay. They dictate the rules and we decide to play or not, if it affects Omega bottom line they adjust the rules. That is the free marke. You can of course tell me to get lost but my watch has a warranty, current model and when didiscontinued the model will have enough spare parts to go on for a good while. I purchase from Omega, they service it so I do not have to deal with all the crap.

While I think the poll is a waste of time and effort, I am very much in favor of the sentiments expressed here regarding the cutoff of parts sales to suppliers.
gatorcpa

Omega will endevou[/QUOTE]
Do you honestly believe that the spotty faced school leavers at Omega can do a better job servicing a watch than an independent with decades of experience?

alam · Oct 20, 2015

ok, I'm convinced! I'm done and out! I'll be following Dennis's steps! ..........I'll be selling all my watches!!!

ELV web · Oct 20, 2015

Would it be possible to just 3D print the parts in the near future?

Northernman · Oct 20, 2015

ELV web
Would it be possible to just 3D print the parts in the near future?

Some perhaps, but I assume printing hairsprings is not going to happen in our lifetime.

Northernman · Oct 20, 2015

More than 100 more signed today!

Total now well into the 600s.
Let's see how fast we can round 1000.
Spread the word!!
https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/swiss_watches

PatrickJ · Oct 20, 2015

[QU. OTE="dennisthemenace, post: 344472, member: 9228"]Omega will endevou[/QUOTE]
Do you honestly believe that the spotty faced school leavers at Omega can do a better job servicing a watch than an independent with decades of experience?[/QUOTE]

I am sure omega train their staff to do a respectable job and their authorised watch repairers and agents. If we don't have faith in the brand what is the point sticking with the brand in the first place. Just my take on it. Look it is not good for the independent watch makers. Could they not work closer with Omega and other brands by making the investment in the equipment and pay the manufacturers their fees in the end they will have more stable work in the long run. This is the way of the world, at 38 I had to change my career. What can you do? That is life, I supported the guys with the petition but in reality people need to think about how to move forward. This is a harsh reality of life unfortunately.

Northernman · Oct 20, 2015

P PatrickJ
[QU. OTE="dennisthemenace, post: 344472, member: 9228"]Omega will endevou

Do you honestly believe that the spotty faced school leavers at Omega can do a better job servicing a watch than an independent with decades of experience?[/QUOTE]
I am sure omega train their staff to do a respectable job and their authorised watch repairers and agents. If we don't have faith in the brand what is the point sticking with the brand in the first place. Just my take on it. Look it is not good for the independent watch makers. Could they not work closer with Omega and other brands by making the investment in the equipment and pay the manufacturers their fees in the end they will have more stable work in the long run. This is the way of the world, at 38 I had to change my career. What can you do? That is life, I supported the guys with the petition but in reality people need to think about how to move forward. This is a harsh reality of life unfortunately.[/QUOTE]
It´s a bit sad to invest GBP40000+ in equipment and certification needed to service modern Omega watches when you are specializing in vintage.

Archer · Oct 20, 2015

Northernman
It´s a bit sad to invest GBP40000+ in equipment and certification needed to service modern Omega watches when you are specializing in vintage.

There are only 2 pieces of equipment that I am required to have that are specifically for modern watches. And that's only if I stretch the definition of "modern" quite a bit to include some watches that could certainly be considered vintage.

I am required to have a tester for quartz watches, so that is one piece. The other is the high pressure wet tester for testing dive watches. I have used both of these for vintage watches - both early quartz and vintage divers.

The vast majority of the "required" equipment is used on both modern and vintage watches. The Swatch requirements are not particularly onerous compared to others to be frank. Where Swatch will accept a variety of equipment for specific functions, Rolex will only accept one specific brand for a particular piece, and in some cases only one specific model that the brand offers.

And having said all that, with the tiered approach that Swatch uses you can choose what level of watches you want to work to, and possibly eliminate things like the high pressure wet tester, and they would not sell you case parts for the dive watches as a result. Not everyone needs to have the full certification to work on dive watches, co-axials, etc. that I do.

I understand that not everyone feels that it suits their business to do what is required to get an account, and if that is what they choose so be it, but even if you only work on vintage the equipment is hardly a waste of money.

Cheers, Al

PatrickJ · Oct 20, 2015

But what about the revenue you make from all the new business you will get. Sometimes we have to invest money and re educate just to survive. Life in the last 20 years has become more demanding whatever you do.

"Northernman, post: 344537, member: 4390"]Do you honestly believe that the spotty faced school leavers at Omega can do a better job servicing a watch than an independent with decades of experience?[/QUOTE]
I am sure omega train their staff to do a respectable job and their authorised watch repairers and agents. If we don't have faith in the brand what is the point sticking with the brand in the first place. Just my take on it. Look it is not good for the independent watch makers. Could they not work closer with Omega and other brands by making the investment in the equipment and pay the manufacturers their fees in the end they will have more stable work in the long run. This is the way of the world, at 38 I had to change my career. What can you do? That is life, I supported the guys with the petition but in reality people need to think about how to move forward. This is a harsh reality of life unfortunately.[/QUOTE]
It´s a bit sad to invest GBP40000+ in equipment and certification needed to service modern Omega watches when you are specializing in vintage.[/QUOTE]
Butwhat

PatrickJ · Oct 20, 2015

Archer
There are onlyService gentlemananes of equipment that I am required to have that are specifically for modern watches. And that's only if I stretch the definition of "modern" quite a bit to include some watches that could certainly be considered vintage.

I am required to have a tester for quartz watches, so that is one piece. The other is the high pressure wet tester for testing dive watches. I have used both of these for vintage watches - both early quartz and vintage divers.

The vast majority of the "required" equipment is used on both modern and vintage watches. The Swatch requirements are not particularly onerous compared to others to be frank. Where Swatch will accept a variety of equipment for specific functions, Rolex will only accept one specific brand for a particular piece, and in some cases only one specific model that the brand offers.

And having said all that, with the tiered approach that Swatch uses you can choose what level of watches you want to work to, and possibly eliminate things like the high pressure wet tester, and they would not sell you case parts for the dive watches as a result. Not everyone needs to have the full certification to work on dive watches, co-axials, etc. that I do.

I understand that not everyone feels that it suits their business to do what is required to get an account, and if that is what they choose so be it, but even if you only work on vintage the equipment is hardly a waste of money.

Cheers, Al

There you go not so bad afteral, from an authorised Omega Servkce gentleman

ChrisN · Oct 21, 2015

Out of interest, I'm not sure where the £40k extra tools comes from but from what Al says above and a post I read elsewhere, this seems to be more like £5k for a shop with all the usual tools. Surely for Watchmakers who still want to service Swatch watches, it would make sense to do this? You could amortize this over a year by just increasing the typical service cost by £10? Possibly less, as I suspect direct prices are less from Omega than Cousins (A PZ5000 crystal is US$50 from Cousins as an example but probably $30 direct?).

I realise this doesn't solve the problem for everyone (not me or any other amateur) but it does for some. Or did someone cost this out and it really is £40k as that is a huge investment? Does that number include additional Group specific training? I appreciate it could be more if you're doing specific training for coaxials (for example) or if you need more kit for those.

Just interested to see what a real figure might be.

Regards, Chris

Support independent Watchmakers!

ConElPueblo

citizenrich

ConElPueblo

PatrickJ

PatrickJ

PatrickJ

gatorcpa

Archer

PatrickJ

dennisthemenace

alam

ELV web

Northernman

Northernman

PatrickJ

Northernman

Archer

PatrickJ

PatrickJ

ChrisN

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