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Support independent Watchmakers!
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oddboy
·that is a fun movie! loved it!
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ulackfocus
·Tell you what - if your grade school petition sways Swatch to rethink their decision and keep offering parts to the independents without interruption in 2016, then I'll pack up and leave the forum permanently. How about you? If your mastermind grand petition doesn't halt the pending embargo, will you do the same?
How about this - if your little attempt at a miracle ends up costing watch owners MORE money to have their watch serviced because the Swiss want to smack down what they believe is insolence, will you pay the extra hundreds of dollars for each forum member to have their watch serviced? Got the balls to put your money where your mouth is? You really have NO idea what it's like to deal with them. Several watchmakers have told me of their plights - not just independents, ones who worked for the major names and trained in Switzerland. The Swiss are as close to dictators as you can get in business, and don't care one damn bit about other country's laws. Of course, there's no way to prove a price hike will be the direct result of this immature and ill-considered petition.
How about this - if your little attempt at a miracle ends up costing watch owners MORE money to have their watch serviced because the Swiss want to smack down what they believe is insolence, will you pay the extra hundreds of dollars for each forum member to have their watch serviced? Got the balls to put your money where your mouth is? You really have NO idea what it's like to deal with them. Several watchmakers have told me of their plights - not just independents, ones who worked for the major names and trained in Switzerland. The Swiss are as close to dictators as you can get in business, and don't care one damn bit about other country's laws. Of course, there's no way to prove a price hike will be the direct result of this immature and ill-considered petition.
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Northernman
··Lemaniacthat is a fun movie! loved it!
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Northernman
··LemaniacTell you what - if your grade school petition sways Swatch to rethink their decision and keep offering parts to the independents without interruption in 2016, then I'll pack up and leave the forum permanently. How about you? If your mastermind grand petition doesn't halt the pending embargo, will you do the same?
How about this - if your little attempt at a miracle ends up costing watch owners MORE money to have their watch serviced because the Swiss want to smack down what they believe is insolence, will you pay the extra hundreds of dollars for each forum member to have their watch serviced? Got the balls to put your money where your mouth is? You really have NO idea what it's like to deal with them. Several watchmakers have told me of their plights - not just independents, ones who worked for the major names and trained in Switzerland. The Swiss are as close to dictators as you can get in business, and don't care one damn bit about other country's laws. Of course, there's no way to prove a price hike will be the direct result of this immature and ill-considered petition.
Did you not only two posts since promise that you were done?
We have got your point several times over. Please accept that we do not agree and let it be.
I am here to stay. Trolls don't scare me.
Edited:
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gatorcpa
··ΩF InvestiGatorI am here to stay. Trolls don't scare me.
Not a 4-letter word to be seen...yet.
gatorcpa
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Geo!
·Here's one.............yawn!
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gatorcpa
··ΩF InvestiGatorLast word on how the Swiss treat the people who work for them.
http://royalexcellence.blogspot.ca/
Can you imagine what they think of independents whom they can't directly fire?
Feudalism is not dead, it just exists in a different form.
gatorcpa
http://royalexcellence.blogspot.ca/
Can you imagine what they think of independents whom they can't directly fire?
Feudalism is not dead, it just exists in a different form.
gatorcpa
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ulackfocus
·
That might be too cold of a slap in the chops for the Dudley Dorights here.
This is for everyone else except Northernman and WatchGuyUK:
If being the voice of reality makes me a troll, I readily accept that title. No illusions here! ..... or should I say disillusions? Man, I wish I had a quarter for every time somebody called me a troll because I didn't agree with them and tried to show them why but they rejected my no nonsense direct language. I should have bookmarked all the threads. Not saying I've never been wrong, but having contacts in the business gives me info the rest of you might not get as more casual collectors.
I was going to apprentice with a watchmaker a few years ago, but after a few lunches with a couple friends in the business I saw this coming. There were other straws that ended up breaking the camel's back, but not being able to support yourself because of lack of parts and expense of tools and machinery was the major setback.
Take a look at my activity this past year and read between the lines of what I think is going to happen.
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ulackfocus
·For the rest of you on the petition bandwagon.....here's a watchmaker's perspective that's been in the business since some of you were in diapers or not even born yet, and he's fed up. Look at the dates on these - 3 and 4 years ago. Nothing new happening here, and the last go 'round with petitions and court rulings caused the Swiss to ratchet up the squeeze they put on independents.
https://omegaforums.net/threads/richemont-group-and-watchmakers.632/
http://www.watchtalkforums.info/forums/thread55317.html
There's more like this on various forums. Hope you all stop and think of the consequences of signing on to this scheme.
EDIT: I just went and restored a few deleted posts by one member so the second thread is now intact as it originally was.
https://omegaforums.net/threads/richemont-group-and-watchmakers.632/
http://www.watchtalkforums.info/forums/thread55317.html
There's more like this on various forums. Hope you all stop and think of the consequences of signing on to this scheme.
EDIT: I just went and restored a few deleted posts by one member so the second thread is now intact as it originally was.
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Northernman
··LemaniacSurvey completed, and I certainly appreciate the effort. I do wish though that the language being used was a little more accurate:
"As you know, the Swatch Group will not supply spare parts starting 1/1/2016"
This is not true. They are not stopping the supply of spare parts, but are stopping the sale of spare parts to 3rd party material distributors. I know for those who only buy their parts from a material supplier (Cousins, Otto Frei, etc.) it means the same thing, but it isn't the same thing in reality.
Those who have a parts account can still get parts after this date. No guarantee for how long of course, but for now there appears to be no plan to discontinue the sale of parts to those who meet the requirements set out by Swatch. I don't believe this language is meant to be intentionally misleading, but being accurate about what is happening is the right thing, and if nothing else will hopefully help stem the flow of emails I'm getting from people asking if I will still get parts after the first of the year...
Also, a recent post on the WUS Omega forum by someone stated that they spoke to Bob Frei and he confirmed that Otto Frei has already been cut off. So as I have mentioned previously, Swatch want their business with these places wrapped up by the end of the year, so they have already stopped selling to some it appears, so they can get their accounts closed up by year end.
Cheers, Al
But I guess he is not qualified?
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ulackfocus
·And here is what Al had to say.
But I guess he is not qualified?
He is qualified. He has the Omega-designated equipment. He passed the testing.
Go read the threads above - what happens if Omega goes the way of Cartier and Rolex and makes ludicrously stringent and expensive standards? You don't have to answer that...... most people can figure that out. Al himself states that it's a crapshoot how much longer Omega will honor these accounts.
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Northernman
··LemaniacHe is qualified. He has the Omega-designated equipment. He passed the testing.
Go read the threads above - what happens if Omega goes the way of Cartier and Rolex and makes ludicrously stringent and expensive standards? You don't have to answer that...... most people can figure that out.
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dennisthemenace
·Isn't this becoming a rather boring tit for tat?
Can't someone find something else we can make enemies over?
Can't someone find something else we can make enemies over?
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Northernman
··LemaniacIsn't this becoming a rather boring tit for tat?
Can't someone find something else we can make enemies over?
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ulackfocus
·Here's the danger of signing a petition when you don't know the whole story:
How's that for a little levity? 😜
How's that for a little levity? 😜
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dennisthemenace
·
Let's start a: Why I love Quartz watches thread. 😀
Here's one I've owned for thirty years. It's got that problem DD chrono module, only I've never had a problem with it. 👍
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gatorcpa
··ΩF InvestiGatorHere's the danger of signing a petition when you don't know the whole story:
However, I read those WTF threads and have a better idea of the arguments. One point that hasn't been discussed much is that there is a big difference between the parts for very old watches (say 40+ years and older) vs. those of more recent vintage (post 2000). The very old stuff will likely remain available for some time as existing stocks get sold and broken watches cannibalized for useable parts. As Steve on WTF pointed out, the issue with those watches are going to be with consumables, like crystals and crowns. The companies simply will stop producing branded product. Some already have.
The tragedy is going to happen when the post-2000 watches start needing major service. This will include quartz watches as well. In fact. it may turn out worse for quartz watches and here's why. The most restricted parts under these new policies are going to be case parts. Hands, crowns, crystals, tubes, pushers for chronographs, etc. Years ago, a company like Omega would use the same case parts in many references. Today, that is no longer true. These parts are now pretty much unique to each reference. For years, the watch companies have refused to even provide their authorized repair shops with the parts lists, let alone allow them to order the parts. Even watchbands have become unique by case reference. A friend had a cheap Wenger and wore out the rubber watchband. They wanted something like $75 for the band. No service required...this is for a perfectly good, working quartz watch, that I doubt was $75 when new.
Somehow I seem to think the decision by Swatch to stop selling the commonly used ETA movements set the stage for this. Swatch knows that the patents are up on those movements. They have been reverse engineered by the Chinese. My guess is that pretty soon we'll see loads of parts coming from Asia for these watches at very low cost. Quality will not be to the Swiss standards, but for most generic movements this will do nicely. Watchmakers should be able to get parts for these, even if not from Swatch. Repairs on these movements should continue for many years.
With many of the mid-tier companies (Omega, TAGHeuer, and Montblanc come to mind, but there are many others), moving to all in-house movements, that's where you're going to see the planned obsolesce scheme of the Swiss houses come to fruition soon. Parts for these movements are going to be just as unique as case parts are now. As in made from unobtanium. Given the steep depreciation curve on many of the brands at this level, it may never pay to service them. When they break, they'll go into a drawer, never to be used again.
This is why I will never buy a new mechanical watch outside of a $50 disposable Seiko 5. At least with that, you wear it until it breaks and throw it away.
It's sad, but it is reality. Life sucks sometimes.
gatorcpa
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ulackfocus
·Not sure what this proves, other than most college students don't understand their native language.
Just some screwing around. 😜
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Mitka
·A neutral customer based survey has nothing to do with annoying the Swiss. Anyone that have good and bad stories can add them, nothing will be tinkered with. The Swatch Group contacted us on the matter of the spare parts restriction in a positive manner and they are interested in what the customer has to say.
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