Stainless sports Rolex dealer stock........

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I am aware. But even organizations without shareholders still need to make good business decisions.

Moving to higher brand segment and making a higher profit per unit is not a good business decision?
Thierry Stern has already stated that PP will not be increasing production even though demand is there.
 
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What "higher profit per unit"? That is all being lost out to the secondary market.

"Higher brand segment"? Rolex has always been at the top of the food chain.

Rolex and Patek are still very different companies. Rolex mass produces fairly highly quality, but basic movements. Patek, generally speaking, makes much more complicated movements and on a much smaller production scale. Rolex has significantly more production capacity.

Also, I did say in post that the price gap between retail and secondary has widened so much so that I think at a certain point, the strategy just becomes foolish.
 
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What "higher profit per unit"? That is all being lost out to the secondary market.

"Higher brand segment"? Rolex has always been at the top of the food chain.

Rolex and Patek are still very different companies. Rolex mass produces fairly highly quality, but basic movements. Patek, generally speaking, makes much more complicated movements and on a much smaller production scale. Rolex has significantly more production capacity.

Also, I did say in post that the price gap between retail and secondary has widened so much so that I think at a certain point, the strategy just becomes foolish.

I think that many would tend to disagree with Rolex being ‘top of the food chain’, AP,PP and VC.

If you check the Rolex price rises over the last few years they have always been significantly over inflation. Thus you can assume that profit per unit has gone up. As you have said full vertical production methods would reduce cost per unit. Thus profit per unit would go up. If the retail price is systematically increased it will eventually reach the secondary price as this will be the price that the market will tolerate. All this being said it would be for a certain level of production.
Again as you have said Patek is a smaller operation, but about half the movements made are simple three handed watches.
 
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I disagree with you. VC is a niche brand. AP is okay, but aside from Royal Oak, what are they really doing?

Rolex has not increased prices much over the last few years. And while most of their complications are basic, they still invest heavily in R&D and make . And Rolex has been fairly vertically integrated for some time now... ? So should be no changes on that front.
 
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I disagree with you. VC is a niche brand. AP is okay, but aside from Royal Oak, what are they really doing?

Rolex has not increased prices much over the last few years. And while most of their complications are basic, they still invest heavily in R&D and make . And Rolex has been fairly vertically integrated for some time now... ? So should be no changes on that front.

In approximate terms inflation has averaged 3% and Rolex RRP 6%.
Using Bank of England and RRP including UK taxes
Most R&D is usually amortised over 25-50 years or the life of the return.Again this would increase profit per unit.
 
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Many goods - non-luxury, non-premium items included, have increased in price significantly more than inflation. And even more so than Rolex.

This has nothing to do with their silly strategy to let secondary prices reach 2 to 3x retail prices, thus losing out on a huge amount of potential revenue.

My point is that I think their brand value has always been solid, watches have always traded very close to retail values, so I really see no purpose in this marketing exercise.

I am fairly certain that if they doubled production of stainless steel models, they would be much better off [financially] - even long term.
 
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Many goods - non-luxury, non-premium items included, have increased in price significantly more than inflation. And even more so than Rolex.

This has nothing to do with their silly strategy to let secondary prices reach 2 to 3x retail prices, thus losing out on a huge amount of potential revenue.

My point is that I think their brand value has always been solid, watches have always traded very close to retail values, so I really see no purpose in this marketing exercise.

I am fairly certain that if they doubled production of stainless steel models, they would be much better off [financially] - even long term.

Most inflation indexes have a range of goods to even out peaks and troughs. Also the time range I used would have evened out seasonal / annual variances

The Richemont group bought watchfinder to cash in on this secondary market.
Rolex do not consider the secondary market as lost revenue.
If you look at the brand value it has changed over the years. It has only increased.
The days of the tool watch of the 1950’s are gone.
I do agree that if they did increase the production of SS sports models they would increase revenue. However, most luxury goods are aspirational. By limiting production you increase scarcity thus adding mystique of rarity. Also, with the secondary market it adds to this marketing. At this price point there is the need to differentiate between Omega PO and the Sub.
When most people buy a Rolex they would only have one not a collection. There are waiting lists for some Ferraris but not BMW.
 
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We can go back and forth forever...
It might be different for other brands, but to me and most I know - A rolex is a rolex is a rolex. It's a household name. The same can't be said for nearly any other watch brand. A lot of people I know can't even say Patek Phillipe without butchering the name.
I've wanted a Rolex since I was a kid 25+ years back.
It has been a status symbol for as far back as I can remember... even when you could walk in and get almost any model you wanted (aside from SS Daytona).
Maybe they don't view it has lost revenue. But it is... and there is really no reason for it.
And a lot of people I know have Hulk, Batman, Sub, etc. Watches are like drugs.
I completely disagree with their strategy and many of your points, but its okay. Anyway, I'm done.
 
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Many goods - non-luxury, non-premium items included, have increased in price significantly more than inflation. And even more so than Rolex.

This has nothing to do with their silly strategy to let secondary prices reach 2 to 3x retail prices, thus losing out on a huge amount of potential revenue.

My point is that I think their brand value has always been solid, watches have always traded very close to retail values, so I really see no purpose in this marketing exercise.

I am fairly certain that if they doubled production of stainless steel models, they would be much better off [financially] - even long term.

But their customers would be unhappy with the rapid deflation in their watch values as they walk out the door with a new one. Right now you buy a Rolex SS sport model at MSRP from the AD and you will be able to sell it later for the same or more than what you paid. Try that with an Omega watch, and a $6000 watch value drops to $4000 as soon as you're past your return period.
 
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@sgrossma you need to get out more if you think Rolex is the top of the food chain.
Nothing more than middle tier.......

Several brands above PP also.
 
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Damn wonder how can I fund a steel bezel daytona now at this price. All skyrocketed
 
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@sgrossma you need to get out more if you think Rolex is the top of the food chain.
Nothing more than middle tier.......

Several brands above PP also.

I meant in terms of brand value to the average person.

Anyway moving on. This is what happens when I get sucked into these threads 🙁
 
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The part I'm not getting is - YES demand is higher than supply... but still we're talking about a company that typically churns out 1 million units per year. All of them. So - where do these one million watches go, really?

Facts:
RB are empty.
AD's are empty. I walk past the main Bucherer store in Geneva on a weekly basis or so, there is NOTHING in there.
Only Grey market has them, in scarce enough supply that prices are inflated.

So there can only be three hypothesis:
1- those 3K (give or take) pieces delivered daily around the world are INSTANTLY snagged by (i) highest bidders or (ii) waitlisters, who either keep them or flip them to GM dealers. The issue is, I only know of one (ONE) WIS in my close circle who was able to get a steel sports rolex the past 6 month or so. All the others are getting nothing.

2- Those of the 3K that get delivered to AD's are instantly sold to GM dealers. While the RB ones sell normally... but then again - I have yet to hear my friends getting one via the RB channel...

3- Rolex has just not able to deliver on the usual-one-million-pieces-per-year rate... Either intentionnally, but this sounds silly for all kinds of reasons, or incidentally. I know first-hand for instance of production issue in the ceramic pepsi bezel (reject rate is 80%...) from a friend of mine who works in the factory - but still.

Can someone tell me where my logic is flawed, or shed some light on what can be happening?

Thanks,
Paul
 
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The part I'm not getting is - YES demand is higher than supply... but still we're talking about a company that typically churns out 1 million units per year. All of them. So - where do these one million watches go, really?

Facts:
RB are empty.
AD's are empty. I walk past the main Bucherer store in Geneva on a weekly basis or so, there is NOTHING in there.
Only Grey market has them, in scarce enough supply that prices are inflated.

So there can only be three hypothesis:
1- those 3K (give or take) pieces delivered daily around the world are INSTANTLY snagged by (i) highest bidders or (ii) waitlisters, who either keep them or flip them to GM dealers. The issue is, I only know of one (ONE) WIS in my close circle who was able to get a steel sports rolex the past 6 month or so. All the others are getting nothing.

2- Those of the 3K that get delivered to AD's are instantly sold to GM dealers. While the RB ones sell normally... but then again - I have yet to hear my friends getting one via the RB channel...

3- Rolex has just not able to deliver on the usual-one-million-pieces-per-year rate... Either intentionnally, but this sounds silly for all kinds of reasons, or incidentally. I know first-hand for instance of production issue in the ceramic pepsi bezel (reject rate is 80%...) from a friend of mine who works in the factory - but still.

Can someone tell me where my logic is flawed, or shed some light on what can be happening?

Thanks,
Paul

Stop selling Rolex watches while Tudor SS range gets established.

That’s my hypothesis
 
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Does anyone else find that guy really annoying?

24.9 million Australians do. 😉
 
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Overheard in Rolex dealer in the UK last month; young couple - we want to buy two Rolexs’ as our wedding present to each other, can you help? Sales - of course we would be delighted, what were you after? Couple - a basic ladies DJ and men’s GMT please. Sales - excellent choice let’s look at the catalog and put your order together. Couple - is it possible to see the watches? Sales - sorry but we don’t have stock we have to order them from Rolex. Couple - okay how long does that take? Sales - when is the wedding? Couple - February, we are going to St Lucia for the wedding and honeymoon. Sales - sorry but I can’t guarantee that I will have the watches by then. Couple - wow we expected a couple of months wait but not over 7 months, when would you have the watches? Sales - I can’t give you a date, I can take a deposit and put your order in but I wouldn’t expect to see the watch for at least 8-10 months, Rolex stainless Steel watch are highly sought after and there is a long waiting list. What about something from the range we have in stock instead? Couple - unsure, what do you have that you can show us.

I didn’t hear the rest of the conversation as ‘she who must be obeyed’ wanted to go elsewhere