Stainless sports Rolex dealer stock........

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Stopped by the largest Rolex AD chain in metro Chicago today. Spoke to one of the managers. ... The supply they get is so small that they contact their highest spending customers and offer the watches to them first. Obviously they are purchased quickly..

And probably sold to the gray market just as fast for a nice profit, based on the number I see on the various sites. I’ve always suspected a lot of these “highest spending customers” are speculators buying stock at retail to flip for a profit. I wonder how quickly the inflated aftermarket prices would drop if ADs simply sold to a customer who would keep the watch to actually wear. Of course, figuring that out is a whole other problem....
 
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I was chatting to an AD the other day. He only had 3 s/s Datejusts in stock, everything else was either bi-metal or gold (inc gold Daytona). His take was that Rolex are making a higher margin on the bi-metal and gold despite the manufacturing costs to be on a par with the s/s - steel being harder to work with than gold.
He is as frustrated with it as we all seem to be as he clearly has customers who want to spend money on certain watches but he just can't get them. If someone walks in wanting a Sub, they aren't just going to buy a bi-metal Datejust. He is now selling 2nd hand and has two steel subs (one date, one no date) and one bi-metal blue face Sub which a friend of mine just bought. He is making money on those whilst not being able to sell new Subs.
It's a bizarre business model from Rolex and if the frustration is coming through from AD's, it will only benefit other brands, surely?
 
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And probably sold to the gray market just as fast for a nice profit, based on the number I see on the various sites. I’ve always suspected a lot of these “highest spending customers” are speculators buying stock at retail to flip for a profit. I wonder how quickly the inflated aftermarket prices would drop if ADs simply sold to a customer who would keep the watch to actually wear. Of course, figuring that out is a whole other problem....
This is true. Rolex is NOT constraining or limiting production of anything. If you check at Rolex Forums, you'll see where a couple members have had revealing conversations with (anonymous) ADs in Hong Kong and Singapore. "Greed" is the operative word here, as it usually is. ADs are getting really tired of selling at RRP when they can sell to gray market flippers at RRP + 50%. Flippers turn these around for RRP x 2. One of the Rolex Forums threads has a photo of a Hong Kong shop window with 6 (SIX) white SS Daytonas in it, priced at roughly USD $23,000.

It is essentially impossible for Rolex to police this activity (even if they wanted to). Here's how it goes: AD buys a watch from Rolex at ~62% of RRP. Dealer sells watch to flipper at MSRP + 50%. Dealer runs the Rolex warranty card through his machine. This tells Rolex that:

1. dealer ABC sold watch
2. model # 116500
3. serial number 123456789
3. on June 12, 2019

That's ALL Rolex knows about the sale. The dealer is not required to report who bought the watch or how much they paid. Rolex uses this info to start the warranty clock running. Period.

The only remaining mystery is how Rolex allocates watches to dealers. It would make sense to me that Rolex sells more watches to ADs who (a) sell more watches and (b) sell them quickly. Thus an honest AD in Poughkeepsie sees the Daytona frenzy and holds on to their supply until they find a buyer who's willing to provide them with a large profit from something else---gold, diamonds, etc. The less scrupulous dealer in Hong Kong calls a runner and turns the watches around in a day. Rolex knows exactly how long each watch sits on the shelf, and I'd bet they are quicker to re-supply dealers who move inventory fast.
 
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And that’s the correct way to go about things - be honest with the customers and manage their expectations.

Drives me nuts all this false hope and smarm. A local dealer to me continually told me two years back that I’d definitely see a Batman in time for my big birthday despite my best efforts to get them to be honest with me. Last time around I even said very nicely ‘are you sure as I’ll be disappointed if I wait for a watch I’m never going to get’. Yeah yeah yeah they said.

Big birthday been and gone. If only they had been honest with me I’d still be a customer.
Rolex.....you never actually own one your kids inherit your place on the List!!!!!
 
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Rolex.....you never actually own one your kids inherit your place on the List!!!!!
I would like your post and give a LOL. But unfortunately you are right and it's sad...🙁
 
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This is true. Rolex is NOT constraining or limiting production of anything. If you check at Rolex Forums, you'll see where a couple members have had revealing conversations with (anonymous) ADs in Hong Kong and Singapore. "Greed" is the operative word here, as it usually is. ADs are getting really tired of selling at RRP when they can sell to gray market flippers at RRP + 50%. Flippers turn these around for RRP x 2. One of the Rolex Forums threads has a photo of a Hong Kong shop window with 6 (SIX) white SS Daytonas in it, priced at roughly USD $23,000.

It is essentially impossible for Rolex to police this activity (even if they wanted to). Here's how it goes: AD buys a watch from Rolex at ~62% of RRP. Dealer sells watch to flipper at MSRP + 50%. Dealer runs the Rolex warranty card through his machine. This tells Rolex that:

1. dealer ABC sold watch
2. model # 116500
3. serial number 123456789
3. on June 12, 2019

That's ALL Rolex knows about the sale. The dealer is not required to report who bought the watch or how much they paid. Rolex uses this info to start the warranty clock running. Period.

The only remaining mystery is how Rolex allocates watches to dealers. It would make sense to me that Rolex sells more watches to ADs who (a) sell more watches and (b) sell them quickly. Thus an honest AD in Poughkeepsie sees the Daytona frenzy and holds on to their supply until they find a buyer who's willing to provide them with a large profit from something else---gold, diamonds, etc. The less scrupulous dealer in Hong Kong calls a runner and turns the watches around in a day. Rolex knows exactly how long each watch sits on the shelf, and I'd bet they are quicker to re-supply dealers who move inventory fast.

No, they are not selling above MSRP to flippers.
 
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No, they are not selling above MSRP to flippers.
Yes, they are. Here are some quotes from rolexforums.com:

"As the prices keep sky-rocketing, one of the guys said that most AD’s were getting angrier that they were pushed and shoved to sell at MRSP when the grey across the road was cashing in. As a result, the moment new stainless models arrived, the phone calls offering new stock out the back door started but price negotiations between AD and greys were getting much tougher. AD’s were frustrated and wanted larger and larger percentages of the grey selling price. The AD’s felt “cheated” that they were forced to sell at MRSP but knew they needed to retain a portion of their SS allocation for VIP’s. These sales were described (according to one grey) as “charity sales” by one cranky AD who supplies them."

"I was in HK last week and was staggered by the amount of hard to get Rolex stock the greys had available."

"So this thread itself is a great example of why most AD's in HK distribute their SS Sports stock directly to the grey market."

Here's the rolexforums thread referred to above for those interested:
https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=677287

And here's a pic of one dealer's (non-AD) shop window, also as referenced above (I misremembered---there are 7 (SEVEN) white Daytonas, not 6):

Edited:
 
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Yes, they are.
They loose AD status if they do that. Hence the buy a DJ requirements sometimes
 
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They loose AD status if they do that.
The only realistic way Rolex could catch these dealers is by sending out "mystery shoppers" to try and buy SS sports models for big cash. I doubt Rolex does that. A much bigger concern for Rolex is the replica business, which actually costs them sales.
 
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The only realistic way Rolex could catch these dealers is by sending out "mystery shoppers" to try and buy SS sports models for big cash. I doubt Rolex does that.
Doesn't Rolex already do that?
 
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Isn't the MSRP idea to stop discounting wars from devaluing a product?
Stopping sellers from raising prices is all upside down. And impossible to police.
If I were a staff member at an AD, whats to stop me from buying all the SS when they arrive, & selling privately? Or the owner doing the same?
 
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Isn't the MSRP idea to stop discounting wars from devaluing a product?
Stopping sellers from raising prices is all upside down. And impossible to police.
If I were a staff member at an AD, whats to stop me from buying all the SS when they arrive, & selling privately? Or the owner doing the same?
Same thing... Get caught loose AD. Hell a guy got fired from an Omega AD when he tried to sell his ST2 online... If he wasn't they would have lost AD status.

Rolex is constraining productions, flipper profit is dropping if you watch trends, Rolex will start to increase volume at some point or they will anger all their AD's who are not selling watches that they do not have. Not to mention the public which is starting to get pissed off about it.

MSRP deviation depends on the contract with the MFG. Some you cannot ever go lower and works as a MAP price (minimum acceptable price) generally though its not exceeded. If someone was asked in a Rolex AD to pay over MSRP and reported it to Rolex then it would be game over for the AD.
 
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Rolex is constraining productions, flipper profit is dropping if you watch trends, Rolex will start to increase volume at some point or they will anger all their AD's who are not selling watches that they do not have. Not to mention the public which is star
You keep repeating this without the slightest evidence. Did you read the rolexforums thread I linked above? What is the incentive for Rolex to constrain production? There is none. All the effects are negative---ADs are pissed off, customers are pissed off.

This is a speculative bubble, pure and simple, just like tulips in the 1600s. In 1635 a single tulip bulb was selling for the equivalent today of USD $30,000. Was there a shortage of tulips? No. Was Holland constraining the supply of tulips? No. This was an irrational mania, fueled by speculators who thought if they bought something today for x, they could sell it tomorrow for 2x. It died out, as all these manias do, and it had nothing to do with the actual number of tulips available.

The Rolex SS mania will die out as well. No one can predict when, but it certainly has nothing to do with how many watches Rolex is producing.
 
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You keep repeating this without the slightest evidence. Did you read the rolexforums thread I linked above? What is the incentive for Rolex to constrain production? There is none. All the effects are negative---ADs are pissed off, customers are pissed off.

This is a speculative bubble, pure and simple, just like tulips in the 1600s. In 1635 a single tulip bulb was selling for the equivalent today of USD $30,000. Was there a shortage of tulips? No. Was Holland constraining the supply of tulips? No. This was an irrational mania, fueled by speculators who thought if they bought something today for x, they could sell it tomorrow for 2x. It died out, as all these manias do, and it had nothing to do with the actual number of tulips available.

The Rolex SS mania will die out as well. No one can predict when, but it certainly has nothing to do with how many watches Rolex is producing.

There is a reason, there was a healthy grey market a few years ago with new pieces below MSRP on all but Daytona and the new GMT.

Rolex demand did not suddenly go up. Asian market is not as healthy as it was and every AD and a huge Boutique near me all day they are not getting as many watches.

That boutique lost all of its sales staff as they had no watches to sell.

Explain that if it’s not constrained. We all thought at first it was less available as a new movement was coming out after we saw the ceramic sub... remember that a few years back? No one questioned it then that less where being delivered.

Constrained production allows for killing the grey market which it did, and allow for price increases if they keep doing it less and less interest in the brand will continue to happen.
 
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That boutique lost all of its sales staff as they had no watches to sell. Explain that if it’s not constrained.
Take another look at the photo above where the Hong Kong dealer has 7 white SS Daytonas in his window. That's where the watches went.

Constrained production allows for killing the grey market which it did
Killed the gray market? Seriously? Have you looked at eBay and chrono24 in the last year or so? Dozens and dozens of SS Rolexes, all "new" and all at 1.5x to 2x markup. I put "new" in quotes. "New" to me means never sold. These watches were all sold and registered at ADs---the warranty cards are always dated. The buyers in most instances were flippers, or gray market resellers, whatever you want to call them. The gray market is thriving as never before.
 
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Take another look at the photo above where the Hong Kong dealer has 7 white SS Daytonas in his window. That's where the watches went.


Killed the gray market? Seriously? Have you looked at eBay and chrono24 in the last year or so? Dozens and dozens of SS Rolexes, all "new" and all at 1.5x to 2x markup. I put "new" in quotes. "New" to me means never sold. These watches were all sold and registered at ADs---the warranty cards are always dated. The buyers in most instances were flippers, or gray market resellers, whatever you want to call them. The gray market is thriving as never before.

Flippers and grey market are 2 very different things. Look at history on them.
 
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Flippers and grey market are 2 very different things. Look at history on them.
I understand the difference. What you call them doesn't matter. As I said above, "whatever you want to call them." My point remains valid: Rolex is not constraining production. There is a speculative bubble in certain Rolex watches. People buy them from ADs at much higher than MSRP, then immediately resell them at a great profit. Instead of sitting on AD shelves for $12,400, these Daytonas (for example) have been sitting on eBay, chrono24, and in Asian dealers' windows for months at $23,000.
 
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I understand the difference. What you call them doesn't matter. As I said above, "whatever you want to call them." My point remains valid: Rolex is not constraining production. There is a speculative bubble in certain Rolex watches. People buy them from ADs at much higher than MSRP, then immediately resell them at a great profit. Instead of sitting on AD shelves for $12,400, these Daytonas (for example) have been sitting on eBay, chrono24, and in Asian dealers' windows for months at $23,000.
Right flippers got them and the markets starting to drop out I projected that awhile ago. The Daytona has been constrained since the zenith powered days due to limited movements from zenith and Rolex kept it that way for reasons I understand.

I know the AD’s around me are all saying they are getting less subs then they used to get. That tells me that Rolex is constraining Subs if not others. If it justs subs then it’s trickling down to the other non Daytona/GMT models.
 
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The Daytona has been constrained since the zenith powered days due to limited movements from zenith and Rolex kept it that way for reasons I understand.
What are the reasons?
I know the AD’s around me are all saying they are getting less subs then they used to get. That tells me that Rolex is constraining Subs
That tells me that there is a mania, or speculative bubble, in all Rolex stainless steel sports models. People buy them not with the intention of wearing them, but with the intention of immediately reselling them for great profit. Rolex is not constraining production of anything.
 
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@wsfarrell
Let’s agree to disagree.

The Daytona has had the mystique of being hard to get from the Zenith days. It’s a halo product not easy to get. It’s part of the allure. It also carries a much higher price tag then competing models due to this. From a business standpoint it makes sense.

I know for a fact less subs are coming to market and either that’s pushing explorers and sky dwellers up I don’t know. Or there is less of them. Staff at a giant Rolex Boutique have confirmed less pieces are coming in, and most long time staff has left due to this and only having a 1,500 square foot shop filled with only Cillini and DJ’s is sad. They get 3-5 a week in one of the most trafficked hi ends malls around. The guy at the JLC boutique said they sell more JLC a day then they did at the 2 times as large Rolex Boutique 50 feet away. The IWC guys just smirk and admit they are selling a lot of watches to guys that can’t get the Rolex they want. VC and Omega are doing incredibly well there.

Who knows why Rolex is continuing to release less then demand but they are. They are a private company that answers to no one, but it’s board.