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neilp
·I've seen an Ed White for sale and would appreciate opinions:
Speedmaster 105.003: opinions sought
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Dan S
·I'm not sure what you're hoping to hear. It's obviously ratty and beat to hell. Do you like it? Is it dirt cheap?
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Davidt
·It’s rough.
Wjat are your thoughts on it?
Wjat are your thoughts on it?
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Seaborg
·On what precise point(s) do you want us to give our opinion? The condition? The originality? The attractiveness? The price?
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pdxleaf
·This is a great watch for someone who knows nothing about Speedmasters but saw something online about Speedmasters being collectible and then did no further research.
If it were free or inherited, then it would have value.
No disrespect intended and not addressed to the OP. It's my opinion.
If it were free or inherited, then it would have value.
No disrespect intended and not addressed to the OP. It's my opinion.
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neilp
·I realize it’s not in “collector “ condition but I was hoping for thoughts on value and originality . Thanks for the comments so far.
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Davidt
·I realize it’s not in “collector “ condition but I was hoping for thoughts on value and originality . Thanks for the comments so far.
Have you looked at other examples as a comparison and the sp101 price chart?
I will get the conversation going and encourage comments if you share your thoughts on the watch as a starting point.
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Dan S
·Have you looked at other examples as a comparison and the sp101 price chart?
I will get the conversation going and encourage comments if you share your thoughts on the watch as a starting point.
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zenaj
·Same here, depends on the asking price or the story behind the watch (if that is important to you). But swap the bracelet, bezel, minute and hour hands and if the price is alright it's a decent watch...The movement looks clean to me, at least judging the picture of it...
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neilp
·Dan, fair point. Some more context: I have owned a fair number of watches and am lately finding that I prefer to wear the ones that are not pristine or "collectible", several of those have been sold. The joy of owning a very nice example wears off when it sits in the watch box for fear of a knock or scratch that might detract from the value. So I am coming to the conclusion that older, vintage examples that are bought at the right price are a better fit for me. This feeling has been amplified as I recently (well, a year or two ago) moved most of the watches to a safety deposit box at the bank. I now keep one or two at the house but the majority are in safe keeping. All well and good but now I have to plan what I want to use and what stays in the box. And I find that more and more I wear my triple date Speedmaster as it is functional and "pre-disastered" (bonus points for knowing the movie reference!).
I sold my Speedy Pro (late model 1861) as it was very rarely worn and nin like new condition. It was replaced by a pristine FOIS but that also rarely gets worn. So I am thinking a more vintage example would be a better fit for my Speedmaster requirement! I know this one is pretty rough but maybe a better bezel could be added and would cheer it up.
The ask is $9k but I think that is a bit high. All thoughts appreciated.
I sold my Speedy Pro (late model 1861) as it was very rarely worn and nin like new condition. It was replaced by a pristine FOIS but that also rarely gets worn. So I am thinking a more vintage example would be a better fit for my Speedmaster requirement! I know this one is pretty rough but maybe a better bezel could be added and would cheer it up.
The ask is $9k but I think that is a bit high. All thoughts appreciated.
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Dan S
·You could price it using the FAIR value on the speedmaster101 price chart plus something for the bracelet, but I'd also suggest a second approach where you think realistically about how much you will be putting into it. Based on that photo, the bracelet may not be wearable without a full restoration. It's also a candidate for a high quality re-lume, obviously.
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Donn Chambers
·Dan, fair point. Some more context: I have owned a fair number of watches and am lately finding that I prefer to wear the ones that are not pristine or "collectible", several of those have been sold. The joy of owning a very nice example wears off when it sits in the watch box for fear of a knock or scratch that might detract from the value. So I am coming to the conclusion that older, vintage examples that are bought at the right price are a better fit for me. This feeling has been amplified as I recently (well, a year or two ago) moved most of the watches to a safety deposit box at the bank. I now keep one or two at the house but the majority are in safe keeping. All well and good but now I have to plan what I want to use and what stays in the box. And I find that more and more I wear my triple date Speedmaster as it is functional and "pre-disastered" (bonus points for knowing the movie reference!).
I sold my Speedy Pro (late model 1861) as it was very rarely worn and nin like new condition. It was replaced by a pristine FOIS but that also rarely gets worn. So I am thinking a more vintage example would be a better fit for my Speedmaster requirement! I know this one is pretty rough but maybe a better bezel could be added and would cheer it up.
The ask is $9k but I think that is a bit high. All thoughts appreciated.
really don’t understand your logic here.
You have a perfectly good modern Speedmaster in pristine condition, likely purchased for significantly less than the $9k asking price for this one. Could wear for 50 years with moderate care and it would still look better than this example.
But are considering paying $9k for a beat up old model to wear, while keeping the new version pristine. And why? To sell in a few years for a fraction more than you paid? To look at from time to time?
Not trying to sound harsh here, but I will never understand this collectible mentality of buying watches and never wearing them. Or worrying they will get some scratches on them.
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neilp
·Donn, good points and I agree with your thoughts in principle. The fact is the reality is different. When I wear a watch it stays on for almost all activities - yard work, wrenching on cars etc. I am not one to worry about a nick or scratch once it's on my wrist. That said when picking which one to wear when looking at the watch box I tend to avoid the nicer examples, likely as a result of that philosophy! I have an Omega Aqua Terra that was my daily for many years and shows exactly the wear that you might expect (likely more!) and I am 100% OK with that. Here's the thing, I bought that AT used, in fact quite well used, and at a good price for the condition, and have therefore worn it a lot without concern. I hope this gives more insight into my thinking.
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neilp
·My thoughts on daily wear impact and value:
FOIS, close to LNIB condition, value maybe $5k (precise number not important) value with daily wear nicks etc added, maybe $4k
Ed White in tatty condition value if bought right $7k (again no idea what is correct here that's why I am asking but not important) value with daily wear nicks added: $7k
FOIS, close to LNIB condition, value maybe $5k (precise number not important) value with daily wear nicks etc added, maybe $4k
Ed White in tatty condition value if bought right $7k (again no idea what is correct here that's why I am asking but not important) value with daily wear nicks added: $7k
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Davidt
·Although I fully agree that I can’t imagine having watches I don’t wear, I also think it’s perfectly fine to buy/wear a vintage watch in so-so condition to use as a beater.
There should be two major points to consider though:
1. The price should reflect the condition. It’s no good paying a good price to get a fair example.
2. You should still find the watch attractive. Obviously this is highly subjective but as an example, I still find some fair watches with beat up bezels, couple of scratches/stains on the dial and marks to the case that I find attractive and would be happy to wear - at the right price. Often these still have nice lume but perhaps it’s missing in places.
I wouldn’t consider a watch with mouldy green lume, a case that resembles a bar of used soap and a bezel that’s loose or cracked.
So, to the OP watch. Does it tick point 1-price? Not for me, it’s far too expensive.
Does it tick point 2-attraction? Possibly. I quite like bezels that have even wear and the dial, although damaged could be reasonable. However, unless the price drops significantly, it’s irrelevant
There should be two major points to consider though:
1. The price should reflect the condition. It’s no good paying a good price to get a fair example.
2. You should still find the watch attractive. Obviously this is highly subjective but as an example, I still find some fair watches with beat up bezels, couple of scratches/stains on the dial and marks to the case that I find attractive and would be happy to wear - at the right price. Often these still have nice lume but perhaps it’s missing in places.
I wouldn’t consider a watch with mouldy green lume, a case that resembles a bar of used soap and a bezel that’s loose or cracked.
So, to the OP watch. Does it tick point 1-price? Not for me, it’s far too expensive.
Does it tick point 2-attraction? Possibly. I quite like bezels that have even wear and the dial, although damaged could be reasonable. However, unless the price drops significantly, it’s irrelevant
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padders
··Oooo subtitles!My thoughts on daily wear impact and value:
FOIS, close to LNIB condition, value maybe $5k (precise number not important) value with daily wear nicks etc added, maybe $4k
Ed White in tatty condition value if bought right $7k (again no idea what is correct here that's why I am asking but not important) value with daily wear nicks added: $7k
Or from another POV:
LNIB FOIS which is now discontinued and rising slowly in value $5K, value with a few nicks in a few years $5K (perhaps minus the cost of a new strap)
Tatty Ed White bought expensively at $7K (I thought the asking price was $9K by the way?) with maybe another ~$1K needed to make it usable day to day, value in a few years in static or falling market as the froth continues to come off prices of poorer examples ~$5K
I actually own both of these by the way in case you think I am biased towards one or the other! There may well be a $9K Ed White out there that makes sense for you to buy, I'm just not sure this is it.
Edited:
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Donn Chambers
·My thoughts on daily wear impact and value:
FOIS, close to LNIB condition, value maybe $5k (precise number not important) value with daily wear nicks etc added, maybe $4k
Ed White in tatty condition value if bought right $7k (again no idea what is correct here that's why I am asking but not important) value with daily wear nicks added: $7k
Let’s think about these “financial” reasonings from a different perspective.
I’m not going to argue your numbers, but will point out that you are basing your decision to buy the old watch and use as a beater based on future sales at some unknown time. The argument buying the old beater is that even with more wear, you can sell it for what you purchased it, whereas wearing the watch you already own (requiring no outlay) will lose value.
But you are ignoring inflation, as well as the fact you’ve sunk $7k into a non-liquid “investment” (and please, don’t argue vintage watches are liquid — they aren’t as easy to sell as you think).
Let’s say you want to sell it in ten years to recoup your investment. Unless you sell for $9400 to keep up with a 3% inflation rate, you will have lost money if you sell for $7000, and that will actually be more than your estimated loss of value in the “cheaper” but pristine watch.
What if you invested that $7k in a stock index? Using the average rate of return for the S&P 500 over the last 30 years adjusted for inflation, that $7k would be $14k in real money.
I can think of lots of emotional reasons to want to buy a vintage Speedmaster. But arguing it is better from a financial perspective is just naive, unless you have $7k to throw away.
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neilp
·Some interesting posts, thank you. I do not consider watches as investments or as liquid assets, but I do hope to get my money back out of them at some point. In the past I have realized small gains, enough to allow me to delude myself that I am not losing money. Although Donn's post points out that is unlikely to be the case in reality!
I am now convinced that the watch I posted is not a good candidate - which was my conclusion before posting, but the thing has been on sale locally for over a year so cannot help but think that a lower cost could be negotiated.
I am now convinced that the watch I posted is not a good candidate - which was my conclusion before posting, but the thing has been on sale locally for over a year so cannot help but think that a lower cost could be negotiated.
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calalum
·Or maybe it has sat unwanted for that long period because the buyer pool knows what they are doing.
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hansaboy
·Well.. I will try to help you out?
😉
But the pictures are not the best, and you need to post more/better pictures to receive (maybe) better opinions!
The reference should be a 105.003-64, the serial nr is not readable…
At least 4 different watchmaker marks, so there has been work/service done.
Dial: Good
It is impossible to see if there are any scratches/marks/oilstains, but I will assume that the dial is clean.
It is the correct dial for this reference.
Lume: Poor
They look tired, and also ”blotchy/spread out, and with missing lume
The hands: Fair
There is paint missing (damage from watchmakers), and discoloration on them.
But they are the correct ones.
Bezel: Fair
It has tons of scratches, but it doesn't seem to have any major marks.
And somehow, it has a cool vintage vibe!
The case: Good
Not so much pictures, but assuming that it has had polishing, and that there are no major damages on it….
The underside of it looks ok…
The caseback:
No picture....
The movement: Good
Since it has had so many watchmakers working on it, I do think that it is ok.
I have tried to zoom in, and the screwheads looks ok, and also the rest of the parts.
A weird thing is that the dustcover looks very scratched!
Pushers and crown have been replaced with serviceparts.
So this should put the watch around Fair plus, maybe around 6000 USD?
And this is with a dial and case that doesnt have any damages!
But you need more pictures and info before going on with this one!
And there is also the DO YOU LIKE THE WATCH factor…??
There is the bracelet that might have some value, but it looks very very stretched, the endlinks do have value (if they are original).
Good luck!
And NEVER buy a watch thinking that you could flip it and make a huge pile of cash!
A vintage watch is a timepiece to use and enjoy!
😉
But the pictures are not the best, and you need to post more/better pictures to receive (maybe) better opinions!
The reference should be a 105.003-64, the serial nr is not readable…
At least 4 different watchmaker marks, so there has been work/service done.
Dial: Good
It is impossible to see if there are any scratches/marks/oilstains, but I will assume that the dial is clean.
It is the correct dial for this reference.
Lume: Poor
They look tired, and also ”blotchy/spread out, and with missing lume
The hands: Fair
There is paint missing (damage from watchmakers), and discoloration on them.
But they are the correct ones.
Bezel: Fair
It has tons of scratches, but it doesn't seem to have any major marks.
And somehow, it has a cool vintage vibe!
The case: Good
Not so much pictures, but assuming that it has had polishing, and that there are no major damages on it….
The underside of it looks ok…
The caseback:
No picture....
The movement: Good
Since it has had so many watchmakers working on it, I do think that it is ok.
I have tried to zoom in, and the screwheads looks ok, and also the rest of the parts.
A weird thing is that the dustcover looks very scratched!
Pushers and crown have been replaced with serviceparts.
So this should put the watch around Fair plus, maybe around 6000 USD?
And this is with a dial and case that doesnt have any damages!
But you need more pictures and info before going on with this one!
And there is also the DO YOU LIKE THE WATCH factor…??
There is the bracelet that might have some value, but it looks very very stretched, the endlinks do have value (if they are original).
Good luck!
And NEVER buy a watch thinking that you could flip it and make a huge pile of cash!
A vintage watch is a timepiece to use and enjoy!
