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Some thoughts on the elusive Contax

Mark020
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Nice article on OF: https://orologi.forumfree.it/?t=80471837#entry674613437

Some of my thoughts:
I have recorded 15 Contaxes with (partial) serial number. To come to an estimate of production I use a couple of methods
1) Known Survivor Rate: based on other batches this number generally lies between 1% and 10% (of course 0% is an option but that is a bit a filosofical thing)
2) Tank formula (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_tank_problem).
3) Some gold UG's have a number below the serial (always on the inside of the case btw). This is the number within a batch. Given that I got some of these numbers in confidence I can't share the exact numbers. But see attached for an example. For instance if the serial is 665.041 is #30 and 665.011 is #19. This means that 665.011 -/- 18 is 664.993 will be #1 in the series. In this case, by sheer coincedence, for 2 batches I could calculate the exact number because I could use the adjacent batch.

My estimate for the total production number of Contaxes is between 400 and 800 pieces. One remark: due to the fact that the specific Contax movements are hard to identify I would not be suprised if there are more Contaxes around than we think. I know of at least one which was on C24 advertised as Compur.

Contax22.webp Case.webp


617.xxx from Sala 1

1731675279444.webp
 
fizz
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That OF article was wonderfully detailed, especially in how it described using the choro hour function as a second time zone.
 
universemania
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Mark020 Mark020
Nice article on OF: https://orologi.forumfree.it/?t=80471837#entry674613437

Some of my thoughts:
I have recorded 15 Contaxes with (partial) serial number. To come to an estimate of production I use a couple of methods
1) Known Survivor Rate: based on other batches this number generally lies between 1% and 10% (of course 0% is an option but that is a bit a filosofical thing)
2) Tank formula (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_tank_problem).
3) Some gold UG's have a number below the serial (always on the inside of the case btw). This is the number within a batch. Given that I got some of these numbers in confidence I can't share the exact numbers. But see attached for an example. For instance if the serial is 665.041 is #30 and 665.011 is #19. This means that 665.011 -/- 18 is 664.993 will be #1 in the series. In this case, by sheer coincedence, for 2 batches I could calculate the exact number because I could use the adjacent batch.

My estimate for the total production number of Contaxes is between 400 and 800 pieces. One remark: due to the fact that the specific Contax movements are hard to identify I would not be suprised if there are more Contaxes around than we think. I know of at least one which was on C24 advertised as Compur.

Contax22.webp Case.webp


617.xxx from Sala 1

1731675279444.webp
Interesting post and exquisite watches! I went into a rabbit hole on the “German tank problem”, I had never heard of that before. Amazing ingenuity and the accuracy is impressive!
 
Tohz
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There's another batch of Girard Perregaux and Jaeger Contax watches in the 626.xxx serial range.
Lowest I know is 626.015, highest 626.123

Watches in this batch come in Staybrite cases, whereas for UG branded watches from this period we usually always see
Enversteel branded cases.

Here's an example of a nice GP that sold last year:
https://www.invaluable.com/auction-lot/girard-perregaux-mans-chronograph-watch-258-c-3f74364840
GP_6262123_1.webp GP_6262123_2.webp GP_6262123_3.webp GP_6262123_4.webp


Here's a Jaeger with 623.066 serial I acquired recently:
Jaeger Contax.webp
 
Mark020
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Very nice Jaeger

Tohz Tohz
There's another batch of Girard Perregaux and Jaeger Contax watches in the 626.xxx serial range.
Lowest I know is 626.015, highest 626.123
Do you think these have a contax movement?

I know these:
1732295783783.webp
 
Tohz
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Mark020 Mark020
Very nice Jaeger


Do you think these have a contax movement?

I know these:
1732295783783.webp
Yes, I believe any watches with three registers in this list should have a Contax movement.
 
Mark020
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Interesting. Have you seen a non UG with Contax movement?
 
Tohz
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Can confirm that my Jaeger has a Contax movement 😉
I assume the same should be the case for the GPs.
 
Tohz
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I was just looking at early Compax watches. The earliest one I'm aware of is this one with a serial 629748 and a Cal. 281 movement.
https://www.todocoleccion.net/reloj...tro-3-3-cm-finales-anos-30-funciona~x37216193
View attachment 3123259 View attachment 3123258
Interestingly this serial well overlaps with the batches of Contax watches produced. Unfortunately, the dial is not clearly visible, but since I am not aware of a Cal. 281 Contax, I assume it's likely that this is actually a Compax watch. Has anyone come across other examples from this batch and can confirm wether this would be a Compax or Contax movement?
 
Mark020
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I’ll get back to that later 😅
 
G___
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Very cool, thanks for sharing!
universemania universemania
Interesting post and exquisite watches! I went into a rabbit hole on the “German tank problem”, I had never heard of that before. Amazing ingenuity and the accuracy is impressive!
Likewise! Proving that high school combinatorics and stats classes are, again, useful!
 
martinc
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Just a quick comment here.
I have on my list, at this point, a total of 5 Contaxes (cal. 285, steel case) with serials 587xxx . Possibly a batch between 587 650 and 587 750 ?
I also have 8 examples with 607xxx serials and 4 with 630 xxx serials in my tables.
These are the most frequent cal. 285 Contax serials.
Highest documented I have o my list a 665xxx (still a cal. 285).
There is a 680xxx with cal 283 and gold case on Sala - very high serial for a Contax.
 
Anthor
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How many Contax are known in the world? Just out of curiosity ☺️
 
martinc
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Anthor Anthor
How many Contax are known in the world? Just out of curiosity ☺️
I know about 24 examples with cal. 285 and normal wristwatch cases.
I have never tried to research those with smaller calibers and pocket watch examples (I know about one with cal. 285).

There are 23 listed here: https://goldammer.me/blogs/articles/universal-geneve-contax-prototype-chronograph
The table was made with the use of data from me and mainly from @Mark020 , there is an overlap with what I am saying above, but the table in the article has not been updated since publishing (eg. it lists three 587xxx´s, but there are now five documented (I own two of them :-D ), there are just two 630xxx´s, but we have definitely four documented (including yours and one mine ;-) )... Also the table mixes all calibers (and they are not mentioned).

So, give or take, there might be around 30 "known" Contaxes of all calibers and case types and materials existing (??).
 
Anthor
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martinc martinc
I know about 24 examples with cal. 285 and normal wristwatch cases.
I have never tried to research those with smaller calibers and pocket watch examples (I know about one with cal. 285).

There are 23 listed here: https://goldammer.me/blogs/articles/universal-geneve-contax-prototype-chronograph
The table was made with the use of data from me and mainly from @Mark020 , there is an overlap with what I am saying above, but the table in the article has not been updated since publishing (eg. it lists three 587xxx´s, but there are now five documented (I own two of them :-D ), there are just two 630xxx´s, but we have definitely four documented (including yours and one mine ;-) )... Also the table mixes all calibers (and they are not mentioned).

So, give or take, there might be around 30 "known" Contaxes of all calibers and case types and materials existing (??).
Ok, thank you, very appreciate 😊
 
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