Forums Latest Members

Some questions about a 18k JW Benson Ludgate pocket watch

  1. S.H. Mar 6, 2022

    Posts
    1,515
    Likes
    3,511
    I don't wear pocket watches but I don't like to see them condemned to the trash because someone wants to melt their gold case... so I sometimes buy them just to save them. Sure enough, this week the price of gold spiked and a heavy JW Benson ended up in my lap. I could have bought a really cool Omega with this, gold is through the roof :eek: and this thing is heavy. Did I mention it is heavy?

    I'm French so I'm not familiar with those: I just learned a few things on the internet, I'm not 100% sure. ::book:: First, some pictures :

    DSC_6746.jpeg
    DSC_6748.jpeg
    DSC_6749.jpeg

    Also, the London Assay hallmarks (an owl has also been punched elsewhere in a few places by the French authorities, indicating gold of foreign provenance):

    DSC_6747.jpeg

    This watch is like a Rolls Royce, big, obsolete, expensive but still working after a hundred years...

    Here is what I think I understand:
    - this is a British made JW Benson "Ludgate" keyless movement, not particularly high end (partially jewelled, flat hairspring). a bit strange in such a well made full 18k gold case
    - the movement is engraved "To H. M. the Queen" which points to a production date before 1901. Afterwards it was worded differently, or not marked at all.
    - the date letter is a gothic small "c" which for the London assay (leopards head) indicates 1918-1919. The case bears the maker's mark JWB so it is not aftermarket / custom. Numbers on case and movement are the same.
    I have found a similar mismatch here : https://oxfordpocketwatches.blogspot.com/2014/12/jw-benson-ludgate.html

    ::confused2::

    Why such a mismatch in the date, at least 20 years apart? Did I misread or misunderstood something? Because it does look strange to me to use such a movement, after letting it sit on a shelf for 20 years, in a full gold case, which should have been eye-wateringly expensive just after WWI?
     
    Edited Mar 6, 2022
    felsby and DaveK like this.
  2. Canuck Mar 6, 2022

    Posts
    13,377
    Likes
    37,538
    According to my copy of Jackson’s Hallmarks, there are some characteristics of the stampings in your case that might indicate that the case was imported for Benson. In particular, the shape of the shield around the leopard indicates an import. The presence of the crown might be the standard mark for an imported item of either 22-karat, or 18-karat. My reference shows the date letter in your case as pertaining to sterling silver for the years 1918-19. Did gold and silver articles share the same date letters? My Jackson book indicates that, up until 1856, gold and silver date letters were the same. My reference also implies (to me) that there is a karat stamp (18 or 22) that should be there. Perhaps one our learned members who have a better understanding of British markings than I do, might reply.
     
    S.H. likes this.
  3. Spruce Sunburst dial fan Mar 6, 2022

    Posts
    6,640
    Likes
    51,745
    This is my 9 carat Benson half-hunter. It has a ‘The Field’ movement, ‘Best London make R.2391’, and gives the makers name and address

    19770CEE-83BD-49B0-B054-A2A5201CBC07.jpeg 3B643547-704E-43B6-A5E8-02FA22C191B8.jpeg 62C159A3-4FED-4428-A4D4-15CF2FD3CD32.jpeg 229DE36F-B59E-407B-8898-09D0922E286A.jpeg

    That said, I can’t add very much save that in small shops in the Burlington Arcade, they still appear to be expensive and, presumably, collectible.
     
    S.H. likes this.
  4. S.H. Mar 6, 2022

    Posts
    1,515
    Likes
    3,511
    I might be wrong, but if I understand well, the letter sequences are the same for gold and silver. The shields around the letters however are different (rounded rectangles for gold); most references list the marks for silver. I'll dig around for imported marks.

    It's fun to decipher those things ...