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So what exactly is a "watch service" for a vintage watch... on expectations and truthfulness

T
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Sadly, that is the state of things with vintage watches. I usually accept that any watch I buy needs a "proper" service ad build that into my offer price. Photo evidence that it has been serviced or it never happened. Also, the number of times, I have seen post on this forum and others that highlight wrong hands and crowns, etc on watches declared "100% original" scares me A LOT.
 
gostang9
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Geezer Geezer
..dealer that added the following sentence to his advertisement: "Serviced and ensured to be working on point once received."
I've been following this thread with great interest. I'm surprised how a definition of "service" that 99% of us can agree on still results in so many back-and-forth posts on what it means.

For me, the debate on definition of "service" misses the obvious fact that the seller in the OP specified it was also "ensured to be working on point". How can a watch that wasn't properly serviced ever be "working on point"? (and no, I have absolutely no interest in debating whatever the hell the seller meant by this additional falsehood).

A seller describes an item and sets an expectation in order to sell something at as high a price as they hope to achieve. Any reasonable person can see that the seller in the OP is clearly not trustworthy and worded the sales description with intent to deceive. How an unreasonable person might interpret the situation is irrelevant.

I did a search on the advertised claim, and found several watches on Chrono24 that include the same description:
- a Patek 3738
- a Rolex DJ

Both sold by the same seller out of Miami FL:
"Cavalieri Jewelry & Watch has been selling new and used watches from all around the world. Originally established in South America, we here at Cavalieri Jewelry & Watch specialize in vintage time-pieces, while having a vast amount of modern pieces available to choose from as well. Rolex, Tudor, Omega, Cartier, Patek Philippe, Vacheron Constantin, Hublot, Officine Panerai and more luxurious watches we are proud to sell. A genuine experience you can trust indeed.

@Geezer , was this your seller?
 
gostang9
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Rochete Rochete
For me a minimum service includes full disassembling, cleaning, assembling, oiling, adjusting and of course replace anything faulty or on the verge of faulting. Less than that, not service. Seller is BS-ing.
I agree.

I have 2 items I regularly have "serviced", cars and watches.

For both, I rely on skilled, trained and reputable people to perform the necessary service for me.

In each case, I expect and trust the people performing the service to do work based on the need; taking into account the amount of wear and time elapsed since last service, any recommended service interval items, and any deviation from normal expected performance.

I always expect the item to function properly after a service. I don't care how any chooses to obfuscate the definition of "service", in the end there is a clear expectation that the damn thing works. If it doesn't work, then they didn't meet the definition of "service". If anyone disagrees with this, I will gladly add your name to my "do not buy from" list...
 
nohackingsecs
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@Geezer + others:
I am wondering if anyone else has experiences with this seller. Found only one particular review online (and this in pretty much all forums, also here) that was very negative about the custumor service.
Can anyone tell me how the communication worked with Cavalieri? They don't even have an email on their website (nor opening hours or anything really...) and - at least to me - don't reply on C24.

What paperwork is included in the sale? Documentation of the watch (pictures, serialNo, movementNo), a guarantee, proof of authenticity?
My watchmaker is the first person that would see the piece right after the purchase and I do trust him more in terms of service and opinion than the seller. I just wonder if there is anything written you could use to make the seller liable in case there is something not correct (e.g. wrong serial number on movment).

Cheers for your help!
 
Dan S
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nohackingsecs nohackingsecs
@Geezer + others:
I am wondering if anyone else has experiences with this seller. Found only one particular review online (and this in pretty much all forums, also here) that was very negative about the custumor service.
Can anyone tell me how the communication worked with Cavalieri? They don't even have an email on their website (nor opening hours or anything really...) and - at least to me - don't reply on C24.

What paperwork is included in the sale? Documentation of the watch (pictures, serialNo, movementNo), a guarantee, proof of authenticity?
My watchmaker is the first person that would see the piece right after the purchase and I do trust him more in terms of service and opinion than the seller. I just wonder if there is anything written you could use to make the seller liable in case there is something not correct (e.g. wrong serial number on movment).

Cheers for your help!

If you can't get a response from the seller and are seriously concerned that they may completely scam you by sending you a watch other than pictured in the listing (e.g. the wrong serial number), then I really think you have already answered your own question. Don't buy from them. Even if someone tells you that they received some sort of documentation in the past, there is no guarantee that you will receive the same, and in any case, you want to buy from a dealer that you trust completely. Not from someone that you feel the need to accumulate documents in advance for a future lawsuit.
 
Canuck
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I have been to many horological marts over decades of collecting watches. Time and again, I’ve had vendors tell me that a watch I was interested in had been serviced. With pocket watches, it is simple to check. Have the seller remove the back, or do so yourself. I don’t recall ever having viewed a “serviced” pocket watch movement that did show evidence of having been serviced. You can be assured that this applies to wrist watches as well! Right now, I have three clocks and two pocket watches from a prominent local dealer. He told me he “doesn’t want to spend too much money on them”. Just make them run! I’ll keep them for a while, then send them back, untouched. I don’t do “partial” jobs that I can’t guarantee. If I were to do as he wishes, I can hear him telling people that so and so (in this case me), “ serviced” them. Then to have the quality of my work judged by something that doesn’t run! Don’t pay a premium over and above a reasonable price because the thing has been “serviced”. Then have it done by someone you know to be trustworthy.
 
gostang9
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Canuck Canuck
IRight now, I have three clocks and two pocket watches from a prominent local dealer. He told me he “doesn’t want to spend too much money on them”. Just make them run! I’ll keep them for a while, then send them back, untouched. I don’t do “partial” jobs that I can’t guarantee.

And when you return them, he can honestly say:
Sent to qualified watchmaker, [insert dealer BS here...]
 
Archer
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KingCrouchy KingCrouchy
I just found an example of a great Watchmaking Job.

Some hack repairs are more creative than others. If the ratchet wheel screw is broken off in the barrel arbor, why not just use the bridge screws with a strip of material to hold the ratchet wheel in place?



Here's the broken screw:



I fixed it properly, of course:



Don't have the right mainspring for a watch? Well, let's just make do with something close:



Need to use some heat to reshape this incorrect spring though...



Fold over to create a tang end:



And here it is next to the correct spring for the movement - massive difference in length and strength:



Oh yeah, that spring was a real bear to put into the barrel, so some minor damage to the barrel happened as well:



🙄

Removing a bezel? Well you just pry those off I hear...



Regulating pin fell out? Well we'll just glue a new one in place:



Most hack repairs are done to save time, but on the other hand you would be amazed at the efforts some will go through to make a bad repair. Sometimes even more effort than making a proper repair would take...not my photo but posted on a watchmaker forum by another watchmaker who found this "repair". This one takes the cake I think:



::facepalm1::
 
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