RIP calibre 1861?

MauricioNO · Feb 16, 2020

Foo2rama
my understanding is that anti mag will not change much... also it’s a robust movement that was made for 50 years. It’s more robust then a 321 and no one complains about how bad those 50 year old movements are or how much of an issue magnetism is for them.

I have no practical experience with any of the movements in question, but there is no denying the 3861 is the most technological out of the bunch, and I my train of thought here is if I am still in the market for one, I might as well wait for the newest version. Bear in mind I have no intention to ever selling this in the future, so it doesn't matter to me how closely related this one will be to the moon landing or the history of its older brothers.

That being said, I am sure I would be very happy having an 1861 as well, and if the 3861 takes more than a year or two to come by, that's probably what I'll end up buying.

Omegafanman · Feb 16, 2020

S stuart70
I thought that the 861 went round the moon in the command capsule?

Yes at least one 861 did orbit the moon and the only up close film of a Speedmaster running in space in an Apollo command module is an 861 movement watch.

Omegafanman · Feb 16, 2020

I have never been that hung up on the Moonwatch tag. If we had not made it out of orbit I bet the Ed White would still generate a lot of interest from the EVA. I am very interested in how the Speedmaster became officially sanctioned for flight and EVA and I have always loved the Speedmaster aesthetics which drew me into the wider Omega story. If the 3861 supersedes the 861/1861a I am interested how it will be received in terms of flight and EVA qualification. The current movement has more than earned its Space spurs flying on with the ISS missions.

MTROIS · Feb 16, 2020

MauricioNO
I am really looking forward to that. Nothing against the legendary movement, is just that I really like the speedmaster by itself, regardless of the movement it is carrying, and I'd really like a more robust movement, one that I wouldn't have to worry about wearing next to a big speaker and have it magnetized.
Having said that, I can only hope the price doesn't go up like crazy 😜

A few thoughts on the elements you are touching on:

- is this movement, meaning the 1861, the most legendary in the lineage? Most people here on the forum will probably argue that it is surely the 321 which is (and to some extent the 861). Fortunately this basis is covered by the 321 re-edition... and all the vintage watches still available out there.
- is the 1861 a very capable movement? I certainly believe it is WAY sufficient for the vast majority of us, and perhaps for everybody. No doubt!
- will the 3861 be an improvement? From a resistance to magnetic fields, undoubtedly. From a precision and accuracy point of view, it seems so (Master certification by METAS?). From a longevity point I would imagine that based on the experience now acquired by Omega with the co-axial escapement-based movements, by now the answer is yes.... but horological experts can further chime in. I still wrestle with the idea of what is “good enough” and at what point, additional improvements become an exercise in style or academic exercise. Although I had this topic in general, it is for me like comparing an M16 to an AK47. Is the first one better than the second?? In many respects, yes. But when you look strictly at their ultimate purpose, I think that most people would argue that the latter is superior because of is ability to deliver in almost any situation. No matter what, TIME will tell in the very long run.
- A key question for me is whether this never ending quest for better part of the natural human behavior to improve things or, in this particular case, is it essentially driven by marketing, financial (to charge much more) and competition reasons. I guess here again, the answer is likely YES, as Omega is a BUSINESS and thus needs to keep justifying why their product is worthy of customers’ trust and, in turn, hard earned money.

This is all good, but people should probably be ready at a significant price increase for the upcoming new model. Fortunately, there are quite a few used models to acquire for reasonable money.

Foo2rama · Feb 16, 2020

Omegafanman
I have never been that hung up on the Moonwatch tag. If we had not made it out of orbit I bet the Ed White would still generate a lot of interest from the EVA. I am very interested in how the Speedmaster became officially sanctioned for flight and EVA and I have always loved the Speedmaster aesthetics which drew me into the wider Omega story. If the 3861 supersedes the 861/1861a I am interested how it will be received in terms of flight and EVA qualification. The current movement has more than earned its Space spurs flying on with the ISS missions.

the 861 was recertified in 1978 for the STS program under the Alaska III ( prettt sure it was III) it’s still used by Russia on spacewalks, and worn by almost everyone save an occasional NASA astronaut during launch and landing in the current Russian launch and landing system aka Soyuz.

if your interested in the original test Fratello has a good right up somewhere of the official NASA request for samples and tests.

MTROIS · Feb 16, 2020

MauricioNO
I have no practical experience with any of the movements in question, but there is no denying the 3861 is the most technological out of the bunch, and I my train of thought here is if I am still in the market for one, I might as well wait for the newest version. Bear in mind I have no intention to ever selling this in the future, so it doesn't matter to me how closely related this one will be to the moon landing or the history of its older brothers.

That being said, I am sure I would be very happy having an 1861 as well, and if the 3861 takes more than a year or two to come by, that's probably what I'll end up buying.

Quite frankly, if there is anything I wished Omega would be improving on, it would be mostly related to the bracelet of the watch (better build quality, micro adjustments,) the water resistance (build of the case, etc. Without implementing screw down pushers like the Daytona which actually get in the way of the purpose of a chronograph) or night time readability, rather than the movement itself.

But perhaps we will be getting all at once this time around.

Foo2rama · Feb 16, 2020

MTROIS
Quite frankly, if there is anything I wished Omega would be improving on, it would be mostly related to the bracelet of the watch (better build quality, micro adjustments,) the water resistance (build of the case, etc. Without implementing screw down pushers like the Daytona which actually get in the way of the purpose of a chronograph) or night time readability, rather than the movement itself.

But perhaps we will be getting all at once this time around.

Omega Bracelets are great at their price point...

Alfista88 · Feb 16, 2020

I've always liked the modern .005 bracelet as well. If there was 1 thing that tops my wishlist of Speedmaster improvements, it would be to "smooth out" the caseback so it doesn't leave deep imprints on soft skin. That protruding ring and hippocampus is an immense source of discomfort for some wrists, as we saw from a recent thread in which a fellow member asked about filing down the caseback.

MauricioNO · Feb 16, 2020

MTROIS
Quite frankly, if there is anything I wished Omega would be improving on, it would be mostly related to the bracelet of the watch (better build quality, micro adjustments,) the water resistance (build of the case, etc. Without implementing screw down pushers like the Daytona which actually get in the way of the purpose of a chronograph) or night time readability, rather than the movement itself.

But perhaps we will be getting all at once this time around.

I hope you are right! Fingers crossed that the next iteration won't be just a new movement. If they are going to increase the price, might as well throw in a ceramic bezel, applied logo and micro adjustment on the bracelet.

speedyproftw · Feb 18, 2020

MauricioNO
I hope you are right! Fingers crossed that the next iteration won't be just a new movement. If they are going to increase the price, might as well throw in a ceramic bezel, applied logo and micro adjustment on the bracelet.

My thoughts exactly on the bezel, applied logo, and bracelet, and I would be shocked if Omega doesn't do exactly what you suggest. The Tokyo 2020 Speedmasters come with a micro adjustment bracelet, so I can't imagine why Omega wouldn't continue doing that with the "new" bracelet. I'm not really a fan of the modern taperless bracelet design, so I hope they'll go back to the drawing board and create something fantastic for the new Speedy, maybe similar to the Apollo 11 50th Anniversary bracelet.

Limited · Feb 18, 2020

They are moving to the 3861 an aim to turn the speedmaster into a more exclusive offering in the close future. I'm not sure about 1861 into Apollo XIII, probably they replay 3861

STANDY · Feb 18, 2020

MTROIS
Quite frankly, if there is anything I wished Omega would be improving on, it would be mostly related to the bracelet of the watch (better build quality, micro adjustments,) the water resistance (build of the case, etc. Without implementing screw down pushers like the Daytona which actually get in the way of the purpose of a chronograph) or night time readability, rather than the movement itself.

But perhaps we will be getting all at once this time around.

Boy thats a lot of changes wanted on a watch that hasn’t changed much in 50 years. 😉
50 meters WR is ok, you can go snorkeling with it already 😗

rob#1 · Feb 18, 2020

STANDY
Boy thats a lot of changes wanted on a watch that hasn’t changed much in 50 years. 😉
50 meters WR is ok, you can go snorkeling with it already 😗

😵‍💫 Don’t start the ‘snorkelling’ discussion again! 😲

MTROIS · Feb 18, 2020

STANDY
Boy thats a lot of changes wanted on a watch that hasn’t changed much in 50 years. 😉
50 meters WR is ok, you can go snorkeling with it already 😗

You think so? Haha. Am I THAT demanding?? 😎
In any case, some of the “few” changes they made along the way we’re a let down IMO. Bracelets are a prime example: the holy grail bracelet 1450/809 I have one of my Speedies is amazing technically and visually and can at least be sized properly. 🥰

In contrast, the most modern iteration of this bracelet that is on my Tintin (the ref. escapes me this second, but essentially the 1998 with screws in place of the pins) can now no longer use the half link that people use to borrow from the 2254.50 Seamaster Pro to put on the 1998/840. Consequence for me: sub optimal fit. 👎 🫨
So, yeah, not “much” has changed, but sometimes the changes implemented were not for the best IMHumbleO, and in any case, IF it were perfect, why change anything then? 😁

Burrogs · Feb 18, 2020

I heard recently that the 1861 and 1863 will no longer be produced, replaced by the 3861. I also got word that the sapphire sandwich will no longer be produced and that all SS moonwatches will have hessalite going forward. Only LEs and Gold moonwatches will have sapphire.

brownwld · Feb 18, 2020

T Theluglife
I'd say it's only a matter of time that all Omegas will have the coaxial escapement and be METAS certified.

Agreed.

STANDY · Feb 18, 2020

MTROIS
You think so? Haha. Am I THAT demanding?? 😎
In any case, some of the “few” changes they made along the way we’re a let down IMO. Bracelets are a prime example: the holy grail bracelet 1450/809 I have one of my Speedies is amazing technically and visually and can at least be sized properly. 🥰

In contrast, the most modern iteration of this bracelet that is on my Tintin (the ref. escapes me this second, but essentially the 1998 with screws in place of the pins) can now no longer use the half link that people use to borrow from the 2254.50 Seamaster Pro to put on the 1998/840. Consequence for me: sub optimal fit. 👎 🫨
So, yeah, not “much” has changed, but sometimes the changes implemented were not for the best IMHumbleO, and in any case, IF it were perfect, why change anything then? 😁

I think I have the best of all with the three I have 👍👍👍

Radial dial, great lume and panda style

DON, applied Omega, steep dial, nice coffee coloured markers and Ultramen second hand.

And classic becoming well worn

It’s my opinion that the Speedy Tuesday 2 is the catch of any collection
when you add up all the features
Don
Steep dial
Applied Logo
Colour of Markers

MTROIS · Feb 18, 2020

STANDY
I think I have the best of all with the three I have 👍👍👍

Radial dial, great lume and panda style

DON, applied Omega, steep dial, nice coffee coloured markers and Ultramen second hand.

And classic becoming well worn

It’s my opinion that the Speedy Tuesday 2 is the catch of any collection
when you add up all the features
Don
Steep dial
Applied Logo
Colour of Markers

Beautiful watches... but now I am bit confused:
- you claim that not much has changed and the watch is good “as is” (I was assuming you were talking about the original classic Pro model), yet you sport two ST LE that clearly have been customized,
- and you wear your original one on a strap, which I am sure you can size however you want, whenever I was talking about upgrading the SS bracelet design for better quality and functionality.

I guess I must be missing something… 😕

Anyhow, let’s indeed add some pictures to this thread 😉

STANDY · Feb 18, 2020

I wear the bracelet and it fits me fine

straps and NATOs are worn often.

I have never had a issue with the bracelet or the classic Moon watch. I just have the added flair of the two Speedy Tuesday’s because they are like potato chips (you can’t ever have just one)

Then there is always blue days that need a 861 chrono.

Sometimes it’s a two register day

MTROIS · Feb 18, 2020

STANDY
I wear the bracelet and it fits me fine

straps and NATOs

I have never had a issue with the bracelet or the classic Moon watch. I just have the added flair of the two Speedy Tuesday’s because they are like potato chips (you can’t ever have just one)

Then there is always blue days that need a 861 chrono.

Sometimes it’s a two register day

That Seamaster chrono on the mesh bracelet....🥰
Thank you for sharing!!!

It is only the "standard" bracelet on my Tintin that is too loose or too tight for my wrist but fortunately, the new bracelets on the LEs fit me great AND I also like (addictive) potato chips!!!👍

RIP calibre 1861?

MauricioNO

Omegafanman

Omegafanman

MTROIS

Foo2rama

MTROIS

Foo2rama

Alfista88

MauricioNO

speedyproftw

Limited

STANDY

rob#1

MTROIS

Burrogs

brownwld

STANDY

MTROIS

STANDY

MTROIS

Similar threads

Bezel for Speedmaster Professional Calibre 1861

Bezel for Speedmaster Professional Calibre 1861

Tag Heuer Monaco - Steve McQueen - Calibre 11 - CAW211P.FC6356 ( excellent )

3861 Speedy….. can I retrofit a 1861 Bracelet?

1965 Longines 7414 30CH calibre two register chronograph in 18K gold - Full set

1958 Omega Geneve 2981-2 Rose Gold 491 Calibre