RIP calibre 1861?

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MTROIS

·Feb 11, 2020

Ever since the Apollo 11 50th anniversary was released, rumor has had it that the new 3861 movement would eventually replace the current 1861. People have been speculating about whether the 3861 would also be flight-qualified to NASA standards and what the impact on pricing would be. This rumor seems to be more and more insistent, with some speculating that production of the 1861 may have already ceased, so I was wondering if anybody had more information on this? Any idea whether these rumors hold water? If yes, any guess as to when it will be officially announced or implemented?

 

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The Don

·Feb 11, 2020

I hope so. $$$$

 

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Theluglife

·Feb 11, 2020

I'd say it's only a matter of time that all Omegas will have the coaxial escapement and be METAS certified.

 

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Evitzee

·Feb 11, 2020

Wasn't the Swatch Group going to have trade events next month, which I understand have been cancelled due to the coronavirus? That would be the time to announce the new 3861 Speedmaster, along with the long awaited Apollo 13. I think the price will be in the $7,000 to $7,500 range, or about 1/2 of the 321 Ed White. That gives Omega a nice revenue jump and rationalizes pricing for the 321, Apollo 8 and the 9300 series Speedmasters.

Edited: Feb 11, 2020

 

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machamp6650

·Feb 12, 2020

Can't say much about the timeline, but it seems counterintuitive to believe Omega would develop the 3861 for a couple of LE speedmasters and then stick with the 1861 over the long run. Moving to the 3861 also seems consistent with an aim to turn the speedmaster into a more premium (read: expensive) offering in the future.

 

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speedyproftw

·Feb 12, 2020

I would guess a 10-15% increase in price for the "new" Moonwatch. I think Omega will want to keep the Speedmaster relatively affordable, although you could certainly argue there's nothing affordable about a Speedmaster to the average person thinking about buying their first nice watch!

 

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mk2rick

·Feb 12, 2020

speedyproftw

I would guess a 10-15% increase in price for the "new" Moonwatch. I think Omega will want to keep the Speedmaster relatively affordable, although you could certainly argue there's nothing affordable about a Speedmaster to the average person thinking about buying their first nice watch!

sigh not looking forward to this increase man.. if it were true.. We gotta keep these watches affordable !

 

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STANDY

·Feb 12, 2020·schizophrenic pizza orderer and watch collector

M mk2rick

sigh not looking forward to this increase man.. if it were true.. We gotta keep these watches affordable !

When the ST1 was $7800AUD and the ST2 was $8700AUD less than two years later, as Yass used to sing. The only way is up, baby....

 

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stuart70

·Feb 12, 2020

Tend to agree. In U.K. I would expect retail to be about £5,500. For me the 3861 will not be a true speed master, just a marketing exercise by the Swatch Group. I will stick to the 861,1861. I think that Archer did a comparison between the 3861 and the 1861. The 3861 is a completely new movement. Where as the 1861 is a development of the 861. Thus the new watch may be a ‘speedmaster’ but not a ‘moonwatch’

 

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Martin_J_N

·Feb 12, 2020

I have no inside information on this but Omega moving away from the 1861 to Master Chronometer 3861 for all Speedmaster watches (other than the 321) is a logical progression IMHO as the new movement has been developed and is available, all that development expense wasn't just for a couple of special edition watches.

As for the venerable 1861 has it ceased production, probably, but what are the chances that it may resurface in another guise within the Swatch Group's empire in a few years time?

 

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Nachman

·Feb 12, 2020

Greetings

I highly likely doubt the 1861 or 1863 will be phase out or replaced by other new movements.

I think the 1861 and 1863 are still strong in the market.

Very Best Regard

 

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GadgetGuy88

·Feb 12, 2020

Someone needs to ask the Omega leadership this question at the next Fratello event...they can be surprisingly open about stuff like this.

My guess is that even if they were to shift movements, it would be done slowly with dual models available. Most recently this occurred when they changed the PIC numbering around 2014, as there was a lot of old and new inventory available side by side. Similarly, the shift from the Ed White to lyre-style cases was slow, with both models being sold for a few years together (per the Moonwatch Only book).

Given the possible low probability of NASA flight qualifying a new movement, Omega may find that the only way to maintain their legacy is to either keep the 1861 in production to a small degree or only build 321-based models.

 

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mmaggi

·Feb 12, 2020

I would like to believe if the 3861 replaces the 1861/63 that Omega would put the movement through the same NASA tests to make it qualified for space missions. I hope the 1861/63 aren't retired but would like to see the 3861 in more models specifically non-LEs.

 

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speedyproftw

·Feb 13, 2020

mmaggi

I would like to believe if the 3861 replaces the 1861/63 that Omega would put the movement through the same NASA tests to make it qualified for space missions. I hope the 1861/63 aren't retired but would like to see the 3861 in more models specifically non-LEs.

It makes sense to me that NASA would recertify a new Speedmaster since it's the watch that would be worn during spacewalks. The X-33s are only worn inside spacecraft since they can't withstand the temperature extremes of outer space.

 

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Newatch321

·Feb 13, 2020

Thank you for the insight. Will ask at the AD soon.

 

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stuart70

·Feb 13, 2020

I think that I read that Omega would do the tests and NASA would rubber stamp. Thus it would still be ‘space qualified’. But I still think that the 3861 will not be a moonwatch.

 

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Tubber

·Feb 13, 2020

S stuart70

Tend to agree. In U.K. I would expect retail to be about £5,500. For me the 3861 will not be a true speed master, just a marketing exercise by the Swatch Group. I will stick to the 861,1861. I think that Archer did a comparison between the 3861 and the 1861. The 3861 is a completely new movement. Where as the 1861 is a development of the 861. Thus the new watch may be a ‘speedmaster’ but not a ‘moonwatch’

To a pedant is anything other than a Cal.321 a "Moonwatch"?

 

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pongster

·Feb 13, 2020

Tubber

To a pedant is anything other than a Cal.321 a "Moonwatch"?

Or only watches that were actually worn on the moon can be properly called moon watches?

 

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Tubber

·Feb 13, 2020

P pongster

Or only watches that were actually worn on the moon can be properly called moon watches?

Yes.

 

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stuart70

·Feb 13, 2020

P pongster

Or only watches that were actually worn on the moon can be properly called moon watches?

I thought that the 861 went round the moon in the command capsule?