Questions about a Speedmaster Mark ii

JBF1957 · Jul 18, 2021

Hello all,

I’m in the market for a vintage Speedmaster Mark ii and I have a few questions about one I’ve found for sale. The case has been “professionally restored” and I am wondering how this has affected the value. To my relatively untrained eye, the watch looks wonderful. The dial has a fairly even tropical patina and the case appears to be in good condition. My only concern other than the refinished case is that the case back seems strange. Is it original? Are the bracelet and clasp original? I have also attached the sellers description.

I apologize for the large quantity of photos and I greatly appreciate everyone’s help. Thank you!

valkyrie_rider · Jul 18, 2021

Unpolished watches are always preferable from a collector's point of view.

But again, if the price is right and you really want it...

You can read a bit about my search for a Mark II here:
https://omegaforums.net/threads/mark-ii-cal-861-does-this-timegrapher-run-looks-ok.93559/
https://omegaforums.net/threads/mark-ii-cal-861-second-try.93801/

Before deciding, I would consider:
a) Ask for a timegrapher run (or at least how it is running i.e. +/- secs/day).
b) Ask what is the return policy (i.e. in case the watch arrived broken or was misrepresented).
c) Always factor-in the cost to service the watch on top of the price paid.

Good luck!
😀

valkyrie_rider · Jul 18, 2021

Mine says hi (original fading dial and hands, unpolished, new cristal).

valkyrie_rider · Jul 18, 2021

Do you happen to have better res photos of the dial?

Judging by the low res photo, there is a weird spot in the minutes register (between 20 and 30 minutes marks).

Plus, photos of the sides of the case would help to know how much material was possibly removed when it was polished.

lindo · Jul 18, 2021

I have a Speedmaster MkII that was owned by an international airlines pilot from 1972 until I bought it from him a couple of years ago. In 2011 he had it sent to the Omega factory for a complete overhaul - it came back looking like this:

The band clasp is stamped 11 and 1162, with lug links 173. As far as I know this is the correct band - yours is clearly different.

As for the case back, it does look strange. It may be the original, but if so I suspect it has been re-engraved: compare it with the original case back on mine below. The Omega service fitted a service replacement, but I put the original back on it as I think the history of the watch should be retained (and it cleaned up OK anyway).

As you can see, the engraving is pretty thin, which is typical of Speedmaster Mk IIs and contemporary Flightmasters. The depth of the lettering on your watch does not look right.

A further check is the case back interior, which should look like this:

As for value, watches in fine original condition will always be higher priced than a restored watch. However it is really hard to find an original Mark II that has not been buggered about by over polishing, or even by "professional" case restorers. Just keep looking.

DanT · Jul 19, 2021

I agree - the caseback engraving of Speedmaster looks suspiciously deep and new. Many MKII cases have been heavily polished and worn, its not uncommon for them to be 'restored' to their original sunburst finish, which requires a lapping machine. I bought mine from a vintage watch retailer and it had been redone. Here's a pic of the bracelet reference number - the bracelet on your one looks like a later Speedy

model one

valkyrie_rider · Jul 19, 2021

The comments about the case back are spot on, it may be a service part. A look on mine:
https://omegaforums.net/attachments/markii_back-jpg.751184/

Adding some extra information: it is correct that most of the Mark II used to come with the 1162 bracelet, but it seems some actually came with the 1159 bracelet:
https://omegaforums.net/threads/1159-154-bracelet-for-speemaster-mark-ii-–-two-different-types.39251/
https://omegaforums.net/attachments/markii_bracelet02-jpg.751181/

A way to determine if the case was polished is to have a look on how high the crystal seats on top of the case. Due to the removal of material from the case during the lapping process, it will make the crystal's borders to appear a bit more out of the case (if you know what I mean).

DanT · Jul 19, 2021

@valkyrie_rider the article below supports what you say about the 1159 bracelet - and is a useful overview of the MkII

https://www.fratellowatches.com/omega-speedmaster-mark-ii-145-014/#gref

I always enjoy threads about the Mark series!

JBF1957 · Jul 19, 2021

Thanks for the advice, but I think I’ll pass on this one. Something about the refinished case doesn’t sit right with me. Also, the sellers return policy is a little questionable. I’ve found one I like even more on eBay for a better price but the seller doesn’t accept returns at all. I really enjoyed reading your thoughts. Thanks again!

valkyrie_rider · Jul 19, 2021

JBF1957
I’ve found one I like even more on eBay for a better price but the seller doesn’t accept returns at all. I really enjoyed reading your thoughts. Thanks again!

Patient is key here. It took me 10 months to find a Mark II with a perfectly aged tritium dial with no signs of water damage.
😀

Concerning return policies, there is a case where a 'no-returns' is acceptable: if the watch is in great state + the price is right (i.e. assuming you have to service the watch and still would be a decent deal).

That is how I once bought a Mark III (i.e. the vendor didn't accept returns, but the price was right plus the dial state was excellent):
https://omegaforums.net/threads/speedmaster-mark-iii.95659/

JBF1957 · Jul 19, 2021

I agree on all points. You’ve been really helpful! Thanks!

Tet · Jul 20, 2021

JBF1957
Thanks for the advice, but I think I’ll pass on this one. Something about the refinished case doesn’t sit right with me. Also, the sellers return policy is a little questionable. I’ve found one I like even more on eBay for a better price but the seller doesn’t accept returns at all. I really enjoyed reading your thoughts. Thanks again!

I wouldn't get too hung up over a refinished case, there is a gulf in difference between a polished(or worse overpolished) case and a professionally refinished/refurbished one. My own case was untouched and I spent a good couple of years debating having it refinished before recently deciding sod it I'm having it done. Original is always great but the starburst finish is often difficult to see in most instances and can give the appearance its been polished off(40 years of sleeves can certainly dull down the finish) where as professionally refinished it looks fabulous again with nice visible starburst and striking polished flanks. With the MK2 where they've never been particularly valuable I don't think it's the same consideration had it been a similarly agreed moonwatch which untouched would carry significant value, value wise I don't think there would be mush between original and refinished(and tbh plenty get sold as never refinished that I can clearly see have been done at some point).

For what it's worth the case in your example looked pretty good to me, but the pics weren't the best so it's tough to give an overall opinion. I'm pretty sure the hands have been relumed(tritium can crumble so not uncommon) but done well to give a crrectly aged look, good work there imo.

The caseback does look a bit odd, agree with somebody that wondered if it could have been a service replacement at some point, sometimes people with wrong tools can make one hell of a mess trying to open screw backs.

Lets leave these couple pics here, my case completely original untouched, and post professional refurbish by STS here in the UK. Not the best pics but you get the idea, I know which I personally prefer. Oh and I had it fully serviced with new crown and pushers so it's now also water resistant which is nice peace if mind.

JBF1957 · Jul 20, 2021

Tet
Lets leave these couple pics here, my case completely original untouched, and post professional refurbish by STS here in the UK. Not the best pics but you get the idea, I know which I personally prefer. Oh and I had it fully serviced with new crown and pushers so it's now also water resistant which is nice peace if mind.

How much do you think it would cost me to have a case refinished professionally? Would it be economical for me to find one in poor condition and have it done?

valkyrie_rider · Jul 20, 2021

JBF1957
How much do you think it would cost me to have a case refinished professionally? Would it be economical for me to find one in poor condition and have it done?

Unless I'm mistaken, that should be included as part of the regular service if you send the watch to Omega. That being said, they have the tendency to replace everything (i.e. hands, etc).

IIRC, it should cost around 700-1100 USD for servicing a Mark II, depending on the region. May I ask where you are based?

A local watchmaker should allow you to have better control of what will be done (i.e. keep original hands, refinish or not the case, etc).

DanT · Jul 20, 2021

Tet
I wouldn't get too hung up over a refinished case, there is a gulf in difference between a polished(or worse overpolished) case and a professionally refinished/refurbished one. My own case was untouched and I spent a good couple of years debating having it refinished before recently deciding sod it I'm having it done. Original is always great but the starburst finish is often difficult to see in most instances and can give the appearance its been polished off(40 years of sleeves can certainly dull down the finish) where as professionally refinished it looks fabulous again with nice visible starburst and striking polished flanks. With the MK2 where they've never been particularly valuable I don't think it's the same consideration had it been a similarly agreed moonwatch which untouched would carry significant value, value wise I don't think there would be mush between original and refinished(and tbh plenty get sold as never refinished that I can clearly see have been done at some point).

For what it's worth the case in your example looked pretty good to me, but the pics weren't the best so it's tough to give an overall opinion. I'm pretty sure the hands have been relumed(tritium can crumble so not uncommon) but done well to give a crrectly aged look, good work there imo.

The caseback does look a bit odd, agree with somebody that wondered if it could have been a service replacement at some point, sometimes people with wrong tools can make one hell of a mess trying to open screw backs.

Lets leave these couple pics here, my case completely original untouched, and post professional refurbish by STS here in the UK. Not the best pics but you get the idea, I know which I personally prefer. Oh and I had it fully serviced with new crown and pushers so it's now also water resistant which is nice peace if mind.

@Tet I think your post sums it up very well - the MKII is a hefty block of steel and bringing back the starburst finish and polished facets is the way to go - and I also think it looks best on the bracelet. What a nice example - and yours also has nicely yellowed lume on the indices, a lot of MkIIs (including mine, which I sold regretfully) have that sludgy green colour.

lets not forgot Mr Maddox's contribution
https://chronomaddox.com/markiireborn.html

Questions about a Speedmaster Mark ii

JBF1957

valkyrie_rider

valkyrie_rider

valkyrie_rider

lindo

DanT

valkyrie_rider

DanT

JBF1957

valkyrie_rider

JBF1957

Tet

JBF1957

valkyrie_rider

DanT

Similar threads

Questions about Memomatic Racing 166.071

Question about a Speedmaster with non original winder?

Questions about potential Seamaster De Ville purchase (sorry). Looks great, but I have questions...

A few questions about a new “used” watch I purchased from eBay

Questions about accuracy and power reserve of my recently serviced 2503.52 Railmaster

Speedmaster Mark II