Purchased a Speedmaster 145.022-76ST on EBay— hope I did Ok?

ajg1960 · Jul 15, 2022

Hello everyone. I fully admit I’m no expert and I know many of you are, which is why I’m posting. I bought a 145.022-76ST recently. As a matter of fact, I haven’t even received it yet, so these pics are from the listing. It appears like a good example of a vintage Omega to me, I feel better that it is sent to an “Authenticator” who examines it before sending it to me. Listing describes it as “found”, I spoke to the seller and it was someone’s watch who passed away, you know that old story. Anyway, looking to the forum for opinions. What is original, what is not, the deal I got, etc. I paid $3500. Clearly has a large chunk of black taken out of the insert/bezel, and black flaking on the dial on the edges nearest the bezel. No pics of the movement, the seller had a watchmaker supposedly take these pics and for whatever reason (hope not a really bad reason) no movement pic. Listed as running and functioning. Looking forward (I hope) to your thoughts. I know that leaving it original is typically the majority opinion; maybe replace the insert with aftermarket and keep the original? I feel like that white chunk is an eyesore that will bother me. No service history, so would get it serviced.

Aludic · Jul 15, 2022

Hi!

This clearly is a well-used Speedmaster, which isn't necessarily a bad thing, by the way...

Apart from the issues with the dial and bezel you've already spotted, there's a few more things to consider. For starters, the chrono seconds hand is certainly not original. Not only does it have a bit too short a tip; it is also of the wrong, earlier, type (drop-end rather than square end) and likely a service piece. Next to that, the case is rather soft, which can be the result of nearly a half century of wear, of course.

On the positive side; it does come with a possibly correct and certainly vintage 1171 trapezoid logo bracelet. All in all, I would not say it is an absolute bargain, but it could make for a decent daily wearer at a rather modest total cost. Most important is that you're happy with it yourself!

ajg1960 · Jul 15, 2022

Aludic
Hi!

This clearly is a well-used Speedmaster, which isn't necessarily a bad thing, by the way...

Apart from the issues with the dial and bezel you've already spotted, there's a few more things to consider. For starters, the chrono seconds hand is certainly not original. Not only does it have a bit too short a tip; it is also of the wrong, earlier, type (drop-end rather than square end) and likely a service piece. Next to that, the case is rather soft, which can be the result of nearly a half century of wear, of course.

On the positive side; it does come with a possibly correct and certainly vintage 1171 trapezoid logo bracelet. All in all, I would not say it is an absolute bargain, but it could make for a decent daily wearer at a rather modest total cost. Most important is that you're happy with it yourself!

Really great and helpful insights--thank you!

Dan S · Jul 15, 2022

Below average condition, but I guess the price isn't crazy including the bracelet. Hopefully there won't be any surprises inside. It's strange that no movement photos were included given that the watch was obviously opened.

ajg1960 · Jul 15, 2022

Aludic
Hi!

This clearly is a well-used Speedmaster, which isn't necessarily a bad thing, by the way...

Apart from the issues with the dial and bezel you've already spotted, there's a few more things to consider. For starters, the chrono seconds hand is certainly not original. Not only does it have a bit too short a tip; it is also of the wrong, earlier, type (drop-end rather than square end) and likely a service piece. Next to that, the case is rather soft, which can be the result of nearly a half century of wear, of course.

On the positive side; it does come with a possibly correct and certainly vintage 1171 trapezoid logo bracelet. All in all, I would not say it is an absolute bargain, but it could make for a decent daily wearer at a rather modest total cost. Most important is that you're happy with it yourself!

If this were yours, would you look for a period correct bezel insert? I'm trying to educate myself, have been studying 😀, I believe this is the correct bezel (dot next to 90, serif 70, no accent over the E, tall letters) -- and the dial-- just let it flake?

Faz · Jul 15, 2022

ajg1960
If this were yours, would you look for a period correct bezel insert? I'm trying to educate myself, have been studying 😀, I believe this is the correct bezel (dot next to 90, serif 70, no accent over the E, tall letters) -- and the dial-- just let it flake?

I’m always concerned when I see these “I spent thousands on this watch before doing my research, what do you think?” Please don’t shoot me for saying this, but these are the questions you’re supposed to ask prior to purchase. On the surface, you purchased a what seems to be a decent watch with some issues. Now imagine if you had submitted your dream watch to the forum before pulling the trigger. Would you have plunked down your hard earned cash for this example? The snake pit of vintage Speedmasters certainly deserves basic caution.

josiahg52 · Jul 15, 2022

I'd also wonder about there being no pictures showing the chronograph at zero in addition to no movement pictures since, as mentioned, it was clearly opened. You should have factored a proper service and repair cost into whatever price you felt comfortable at. The authenticator's scope is so very narrow and does nothing for me. I purchased two used Speedmasters listed on eBay many, many years ago in much, much better condition so it is (was) possible to successfully purchase a vintage Speedmaster on eBay. I asked many questions and spent months preparing for the purchase, however.

ajg1960 · Jul 15, 2022

Faz
I’m always concerned when I see these “I spent thousands on this watch before doing my research, what do you think?” Please don’t shoot me for saying this, but these are the questions you’re supposed to ask prior to purchase. On the surface, you purchased a what seems to be a decent watch with some issues. Now imagine if you had submitted your dream watch to the forum before pulling the trigger. Would you have plunked down your hard earned cash for this example? The snake pit of vintage Speedmasters certainly deserves basic caution.

Thank you for your response. So far, the only issue I’m aware of that I did not notice before purchase was the incorrect chrono hand. All of the other issues were known to me and taken into account before purchase, including the need for service. At no point did I indicate I did no research, I did quite a bit of research, and because of it, I passed on many watches over many weeks before I settled on this one. I also spoke to others outside of this forum with experience and knowledge, so I was fairly confident I wasn’t getting a horrible deal. None of that made me an expert, it simply made me knowledgeable enough to feel comfortable with the purchase. Couple all of that with the facts that it will be checked by an Authenticator, that level of check is not fully known, but it instills some confidence. Should it pass muster at the Authenticator, it will also be checked by my watchmaker, at which point I can choose to keep it, or exercise my right of return within 30 days. The questions about the bezel, the dial, etc were simply asking for opinions on what to do/not do about issues I was already aware of. By the way, you didn’t answer the question about the bezel being correct while you were chastising me for the purchase. Sometimes, people buy a new watch, or new to them watch and are excited about it. I posted on this forum of which I’ve been a member for a few years, albeit don’t post much, because I wanted the opinions of those who know more than I do about vintage Omega’s. It certainly takes away some of the joy of my purchase to be reprimanded for how I went about the purchase, which wasn’t what I was after or what I asked. Sorry if anyone felt bothered or insulted by what I did and how I did it. I’m also sorry I posted.

Dan S · Jul 15, 2022

ajg1960
Should it pass muster at the Authenticator, it will also be checked by my watchmaker, at which point I can choose to keep it, or exercise my right of return within 30 days.

That's nice that the seller accepts returns. That's quite unusual on eBay these days, especially for watches that go through authentication. The authentication process has dramatically changed the landscape for returns. However, you should still be a little cautious, because many sellers will not accept a return if the watch has been tampered with, which would include opening the case. Of course, your watchmaker can still check the timing on a timegrapher, etc. But he might not be able to inspect the movement to check the serial number, see if the parts are matching and correct, etc.

I wouldn't worry too much, most likely everything will be fine, especially if you were planning to pay for service/repair anyway. One isn't likely to find a complete and running 1970s Speedmaster with bracelet for much less than you paid, so if it's something you will enjoy wearing, you don't have much to lose.

josiahg52 · Jul 15, 2022

It's only slightly bothersome and a little insulting. Not the question, mind you, but the terms you've now set. If you wanted to know if you did (or will do) good, then ask before the purchase. There's no point in asking after the purchase. Sure, it may make for a good discussion but now you've shut that down when great points are brought up. What are looking to get out of this question and discussion? Confirmation and a pat on the back? Congratulations?

Well, congratulations and I hope it works out for you. The bezel in that trashed condition would bother the shit out of me at any price.

ajg1960 · Jul 15, 2022

josiahg52
It's only slightly bothersome and a little insulting. Not the question, mind you, but the terms you've now set. If you wanted to know if you did (or will do) good, then ask before the purchase. There's no point in asking after the purchase. Sure, it may make for a good discussion but now you've shut that down when great points are brought up. What are looking to get out of this question and discussion? Confirmation and a pat on the back? Congratulations?

Well, congratulations and I hope it works out for you. The bezel in that trashed condition would bother the shit out of me at any price.

First off, thank you Aludic for your thoughtful and helpful response.
Not interested in congratulations or a pat on the back. Not interested in opinions of what questions I should have asked and when I should have asked them. Was simply hoping to get some opinions related to the watch itself, not my choice to purchase it. Keep your congrats and pats. I will try to remember never to buy a watch and then ask questions on this forum.

Faz · Jul 15, 2022

ajg1960
Thank you for your response. So far, the only issue I’m aware of that I did not notice before purchase was the incorrect chrono hand. All of the other issues were known to me and taken into account before purchase, including the need for service. At no point did I indicate I did no research, I did quite a bit of research, and because of it, I passed on many watches over many weeks before I settled on this one. I also spoke to others outside of this forum with experience and knowledge, so I was fairly confident I wasn’t getting a horrible deal. None of that made me an expert, it simply made me knowledgeable enough to feel comfortable with the purchase. Couple all of that with the facts that it will be checked by an Authenticator, that level of check is not fully known, but it instills some confidence. Should it pass muster at the Authenticator, it will also be checked by my watchmaker, at which point I can choose to keep it, or exercise my right of return within 30 days. The questions about the bezel, the dial, etc were simply asking for opinions on what to do/not do about issues I was already aware of. By the way, you didn’t answer the question about the bezel being correct while you were chastising me for the purchase. Sometimes, people buy a new watch, or new to them watch and are excited about it. I posted on this forum of which I’ve been a member for a few years, albeit don’t post much, because I wanted the opinions of those who know more than I do about vintage Omega’s. It certainly takes away some of the joy of my purchase to be reprimanded for how I went about the purchase, which wasn’t what I was after or what I asked. Sorry if anyone felt bothered or insulted by what I did and how I did it. I’m also sorry I posted.

You wanted opinions. You have them. I’m certainly not bothered or insulted.

Aludic · Jul 16, 2022

ajg1960
If this were yours, would you look for a period correct bezel insert? I'm trying to educate myself, have been studying 😀, I believe this is the correct bezel (dot next to 90, serif 70, no accent over the E, tall letters) -- and the dial-- just let it flake?

Well, I think I would be after a better, matching, bezel for this one. The type of the one currently fitted is period correct, so you know what to look for. 😉 Be prepared to pay around 500 USD/EUR for one in good condition. It wouldn’t be my primary concern, though.

As to the dial; you’re lucky. As the minutes track still seems untouched, I would definitely consider the dial salvageable and know of others who’ve had similar issues corrected. You’ll need an expert to do it though! James Hyman worked a miracle in a similar case I’ve had in hand.

Summing up things based on my own response and others, I would go through the following steps:
1. Have the movement checked
2. Based on that and whether you like the watch in hand; decide whether to keep or return
3. Consider your options concerning the dial and hands and only thereafter:
4. Hand it in for service including the parts in the shape you’d like them to be in. (The bezel is the only part you could simply decide to swap later on, post service, hence my last step is sourcing one…)

Hope this helps and that you’ll enjoy this watch.

krogerfoot · Jul 16, 2022

ajg1960
First off, thank you Aludic for your thoughtful and helpful response.
Not interested in congratulations or a pat on the back. Not interested in opinions of what questions I should have asked and when I should have asked them. Was simply hoping to get some opinions related to the watch itself, not my choice to purchase it. Keep your congrats and pats. I will try to remember never to buy a watch and then ask questions on this forum.

Not everyone is yelling at you about your purchase, even on this thread. Whenever you post anything about a watch you’ve bought, factor in a certain proportion of replies rushing to tell you that you ended up with a lemon, usually based on the flimsiest of evidence. There’s no reason to let that drown out every constructive comment you get.

Foo2rama · Jul 16, 2022

As the resident expert on the -7x watches, esp on the -76.

dial is post Sept 1977 delivery. Hands as noted are not original.

bracelet oddly is a period correct 1171. well…. At least the buckle is.

case is oddly way to good of condition to match the bezel. Look at the inner gaske seats… zero deterioration, zero wear… so explain that dial and bezel.

if this has a 39m movement Id be very surprised.

My guess is there was a pre moon that needed the bezel. Case might be an NOS service case which got the movement from the matching trashed case donor? That dial went to the mid 80’s.

perks713 · Jul 16, 2022

josiahg52
It's only slightly bothersome and a little insulting. Not the question, mind you, but the terms you've now set. If you wanted to know if you did (or will do) good, then ask before the purchase. There's no point in asking after the purchase. Sure, it may make for a good discussion but now you've shut that down when great points are brought up. What are looking to get out of this question and discussion? Confirmation and a pat on the back? Congratulations?

Well, congratulations and I hope it works out for you. The bezel in that trashed condition would bother the shit out of me at any price.

This entire post seems completely uncalled for.

Purchased a Speedmaster 145.022-76ST on EBay— hope I did Ok?

ajg1960

Aludic

ajg1960

Dan S

ajg1960

Faz

josiahg52

ajg1960

Dan S

josiahg52

ajg1960

Faz

Aludic

krogerfoot

Foo2rama

perks713

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