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Phillips auction Speedmaster - a 3.000.000-fake?

pdxleaf
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eugeneandresson eugeneandresson
The article linked above is not the one i allude to (and i wont name names, they, along with facts, will likely/hopefully get published at some point), but if you can get past the ridiculous conspiracy theorems (yeah, there are people today who still believe that people haven't been on the moon 🤦) here is another mishmash of fiction/facts…

https://www.instagram.com/tv/CtMOE5-BYvZ/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

(Not sure how long this will be up…)

Well, that was a waste of time. Watched the whole thing and they never told me who shot Kennedy.
 
P
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964RS 964RS
I can’t believe Omega the company were part of this though and wanted it bid up to $4m for publicity. That makes no sense to me. I can understand that the dealer in cahoots with the buyer (who has an authorised figure to go to) can organise for it to be bid up right to that figure as it’s in the interest of the dealer consignor and the corrupt buyer to get as much money out of the sale as possible from Omega if they are sharing the proceeds between them all….
Just because they are employed by Omega doesn’t mean that the brand was involved as a culprit. The employee or employees that did this acted out of greed to make a lot of money. Hence that Omega is sueing them. I would guess that there is a group of sellers. One or more that owned the parts put together and then the Omega employees to fix serial and extract and most of all; convince Omega to bid a crazy number for the watch. It basically sold 10x of what it should have done. Plenty of money to go around for a few individuals.

If this was a PR stunt Omega could have stopped way earlier. And they would also have swept this under the rug. They are sueing people that tried to defraud them of millions of dollars.
 
964RS
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P PerJ
Just because they are employed by Omega doesn’t mean that the brand was involved as a culprit. The employee or employees that did this acted out of greed to make a lot of money. Hence that Omega is sueing them. I would guess that there is a group of sellers. One or more that owned the parts put together and then the Omega employees to fix serial and extract and most of all; convince Omega to bid a crazy number for the watch. It basically sold 10x of what it should have done. Plenty of money to go around for a few individuals.

If this was a PR stunt Omega could have stopped way earlier. And they would also have swept this under the rug. They are sueing people that tried to defraud them of millions of dollars.

I agree. People saying Omega the ‘company’ were complicit in the purchase and it was in their interest to have it bid up to this is totally wrong imho. This was employees and consignor/dealer plan from the looks of it. I’ll hold reservation on the auction house involvement but I don’t trust them….be interesting if they are outed during the court statements!
 
The_Walrus
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So many levels of corruption. From the dial, to the bezel to even the archives ?
And even the luminous radioactive material.

Surely Phillips has knowledge of this all?
Not the first time a fake watch has been called out from the house.
 
P
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The_Walrus The_Walrus
So many levels of corruption. From the dial, to the bezel to even the archives ?
And even the luminous radioactive material.

Surely Phillips has knowledge of this all?
Not the first time a fake watch has been called out from the house.
This happen at most auction houses. Watches are often put-together and made pretty since this is what the market wants.

The big thing in this case is that someone bid up this lot 10x what it should to profit. And of course the fake bridge with a correct 2915-1 serial which we haven’t seen so it is difficult to say if Phillips should have cought it.
 
Tom Dick
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As others have said in due course the truth will come out. The issue here fundamentally lies in the instant damage of the brands reputation as there are clearly links between this watch and the heritage team at the museum. Individuals within that very unique team have used their influence, knowledge and access to gain serial numbers from the archive and other sensitive and protected information to create something that is not original. There is clear and intentional fraud and the heritage team (by Omegas CEO’s own admittance) are implicated on a number of levels.

It’s such a shame, more over, shame on those who have used their position for this level of fraud and profit. For me it isn’t about this watch but I have long suspected that the glut of Alaska watches that have come to market recently have been too good to be true (for the reasons I stated previously) and this episode leads me to suspect that the foul play extends far beyond just this one watch, this will be the first of a number of revelations IMHO.
Edited:
 
964RS
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Tom Dick Tom Dick
As others have said in due course the truth will come out. The issue here fundamentally lies in the instant damage of the brands reputation as there are clearly links between this watch and the heritage team at the museum. Individuals within that very unique team have used their influence, knowledge and access to gain serial numbers from the archive and other sensitive and protected information to create something that is not original. There is clear and intentional fraud and the heritage team (by Omegas CEO’s own admittance) are implicated on a number of levels.

It’s such a shame, more over, shame on those who have used their position for this level of fraud and profit. For me it isn’t about this watch but I have long suspected that the glut of Alaska watches that have come to market recently have been too good to be true for the reasons I stated previously and this episode leads me to suspect that the foul play extends far beyond just this one watch, this will be the first of a number og revelations IMHO.

I’d bet my house on this not being the first time and that all the people involved in this have been doing it for some time. I hope Omega investigate it further. They just got greedy and thought they’d not be caught after getting away with it previously…
 
Tom Dick
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Pal, I couldn’t agree with you more! Many people have suspected this for some time and I know personally that I’ve seen some pretty solid evidence (as I mentioned) on a couple of alaska watches! What I could never figure is how they came with such bullet proof provenance of extracts etc but this episode, plus the parts manufacturing, seems to answer my questions.

Such a shame, we all know the dodgy dealers and steer clear of them, this is a different level and it’s intentional a significant deception. No doubt it’s been happening with other brands for a while too but this really does damage omega heritage reputation, which they have spent a long time building since probably before omegamania!

A shame that a handful of greedy people can do such damage to a company who really do value the heritage of their brand and have worked hard to build it over the last 15+ years
 
BLOW UP
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Mark020 Mark020
We will hear that during the court case. Think it will be a name most of us know
When is the court case?
 
eugeneandresson
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pdxleaf pdxleaf
Well, that was a waste of time. Watched the whole thing and they never told me who shot Kennedy.

Arent fora about redundant things (such as obsolete timepieces) by definition ‘a (pleasurable) waste of time’?
😗

<\rhetoric>
 
michael e
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I don’t see a 120 years worth of watchmaking history going out of the window for this episode at all.
Everyone was left scratching their heads over this watch and now the story is breaking.
In this world of cancel culture it would be very easy to bury a brand but at the end of the day what has happened here has been done by many people/dealers and nearly every brand has had its franken watches.
This is in no way a fault of Omega as a company. Does anyone look at their collection of beautiful vintage Omega watches any different now?
 
wouter van wijk
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This Omega heritage massacre raises several issues. The collaborations between brands and auction houses to spike up auction prices are debatable (think also about shill bidding and who allows that or initiates it....). It makes more pieces that were given extracts in recent years at least questionable. Beside Alaska I think of orange hands from the Speedmaster Ultraman 145.012-67. Only a couple existed and now it went from 50, 100-200 to 300 pieces? Interesting that these pieces pop up all of the sudden....Fact: difference by a small part such as a hand causes a price difference in tens of thousands and in this lies an incentive for foul play. From Patek and Breguet one can expect this detailed kind of info. The lack of control and vision on heritage and how to build it and cherish the value of the collector community is quite alarming. It's not only heritage dep, it goes way beyond (superior.) Just check LinkedIn for who has already left the building. This I such a bad publicity that it affects brand reputation and brand equity although within a small inner circle but still a circle of tastemakers. SG really need to find this out to the bottom to regain trust from the Omega collector community. And to comment on the last post by @michael e fake art has been done since the Italian renaissance or perhaps even earlier. It is also not new to the watch space but the scope of this matter is way different since many big companies are involved in a huge scam with a 3 million price tag and that is news worthy and not your average scam, but a scam that will have serious implications. Omega is serious to find it out to the bottom but I doubt that the negative PR make the choice to go to court is a smart move. On top of that I think brands should really re-consider the way how they collaborate with auction houses to spike up prices. Please continue with collabs such as Only watch cause thats for a good cause instead of plain greed and market manipulation
 
Tom Dick
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Looks like more now on Fratello, seem omega have gone as far as to directly implicate the head of the museum and brand heritage, which I hadn’t clocked previously
 
pdxleaf
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eugeneandresson eugeneandresson
Arent fora about redundant things (such as obsolete timepieces) by definition ‘a (pleasurable) waste of time’?
😗

<\rhetoric>

One man's wit is another man's sarcasm.😉 ( i should have used <sarcasm> ..)
I did say I watched the whole thing...🍿 i hope they are never on a jury or run for office, but they were entertaining.
 
Pastorbottle
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It also happens in the vintage and classic car world, for example there are more Holden Torana GTR XU1s getting around today than Holden ever made.
This was easy to do because the GTR XU1 was a racing special based on a regular family car, and Holden’s record production keeping at the time wasn’t the best.

There have been plenty of other cases with other classics, particularly muscle cars, where the chassis and/or serial number has been jacked up and another lesser model car put underneath, then had the bits added that made the number special.
 
Pastorbottle
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I’m wondering what the ultimate fate of this watch is, it will probably be destroyed………. But now it is a historic museum piece, albeit for it’s infamy due to it’s place in history.
It should be preserved as a warning to all and to remind everyone who these pricks are, so they can never live it down.
 
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