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yande
路Great work mate! I love your threads, they are a real inspiration for many here I am sure. Best for the Season to you and your followers..
On My Bench - Tudor Submariner 7928
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Archer
路路Omega Qualified WatchmakerThe only way I could remove it was with an "improvised" tube removal tool.
What's that funny wheel at the end I hear you ask.
Well my el cheapo "Rolex" tube tool does not fit properly, but I found that the pinion on an old wheel does a great job of tightening the tube.
Great improvisation on the case tube. Rolex case tubes have a separate wrench for removing and installing. Then there are the "old style" and "new style" tubes, so in all I have 4 wrenches for Rolex case tubes. 馃憥
The "easy out" is what Omega uses to remove case tubes, and they have one case tube wrench for installing new screw in tubes that works for most cases, so a little easier on the tool front than Rolex is.
Also, glad to see good technique used on removing the bezel for the crystal. 馃憤馃憤馃憤
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michael e
路This thread has made me feel a little better.
I was struggling with the same movement not long ago.
The x shaped springs had me sweeping the floors more than a few times to find them.
The mainspring in my watch was a FEF 350 manual wind spring so like you I could not find the correct mainspring, I ended up using a Rolex 1030 mainspring.
Reversers were the newer type with the rockers which were worn, the little hump on the back was very worn so I replaced them with NOS three finger ones you describe above. I also had intermediate wheels missing from the auto bridge which again I had NOS ones in the garage.
The rotor bushing and post were very worn too so again good ones were fitted.
Really enjoyed it all though.
Wish I had seen this thread sooner.
The movement/watch in the OP would have had a silver movement originally that had rusted out, hence the marks near the case screws were someone has tried to knock the rusted screws off to get the movement out.
look for KIF sets like below, you might find they come with the spring fitting tools.
I was struggling with the same movement not long ago.
The x shaped springs had me sweeping the floors more than a few times to find them.
The mainspring in my watch was a FEF 350 manual wind spring so like you I could not find the correct mainspring, I ended up using a Rolex 1030 mainspring.
Reversers were the newer type with the rockers which were worn, the little hump on the back was very worn so I replaced them with NOS three finger ones you describe above. I also had intermediate wheels missing from the auto bridge which again I had NOS ones in the garage.
The rotor bushing and post were very worn too so again good ones were fitted.
Really enjoyed it all though.
Wish I had seen this thread sooner.
The movement/watch in the OP would have had a silver movement originally that had rusted out, hence the marks near the case screws were someone has tried to knock the rusted screws off to get the movement out.
look for KIF sets like below, you might find they come with the spring fitting tools.
Edited:
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michael e
路
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JimInOz
路路Melbourne AustraliaThis thread has made me feel a little better.
I was struggling with the same movement not long ago........................
You're quite right Michael, finding the correct mainspring is a challenge and I can't find an exact equivalent in any of the major manufacturer catalogs. Maybe a Cal 1030 will have to be used.
As to KIF tools, I've tested Al's solution of a pegwood variant and it seems to work well, so that's saved me some $$$$.
Thanks for the feedback.
Cheers
Jim
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jaguar11
路Looking good!!!!!
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ChrisN
路Great work Jim. Just read through this and Iike the way you identify a problem and a simple solution to resolve it馃憤.
Still waiting on a spring by the sound of it. I see lots of dimensions on here so, just to add another from my old FamaFlex book, which lists for a Rolex 390, their mainspring reference 430. Dimensions are (mm):
1.40 x 0.11 x 290 x 9
I see GR3698 at Cousins is 1.40 x 0.11 x 300 x 9 and looks suitable to me at first glance.
This is a manual spring so, you'll need that bridle. Does the bridle measure 1.40 tall? Is the barrel diameter 9 mm when the bridle is in? If the barrel is 9 mm, then it's no good, obviously馃檨
Good luck, Chris
So much for thinking it was simple to find a mainspring.
馃槨
Advice from Al saved me from a potential problem. This mainspring has to be the most elusive little ****** on the horological planet.
Here is the current situation.
I've been searching all of the suppliers known to me without success. I'd like to keep as close as possible to the original width/thickness and could probably go a few millimetres over/under if I could find a generic replacement (well, it'll have to be generic, there are no OEM bits for this).
I thought Cousins would have one but no luck so far.
Is there anybody out there who can point me to the end of the rainbow?
In the meantime I'll continue searching but If I can't find a replacement the old one will have to go back in 馃檨.
Still waiting on a spring by the sound of it. I see lots of dimensions on here so, just to add another from my old FamaFlex book, which lists for a Rolex 390, their mainspring reference 430. Dimensions are (mm):
1.40 x 0.11 x 290 x 9
I see GR3698 at Cousins is 1.40 x 0.11 x 300 x 9 and looks suitable to me at first glance.
This is a manual spring so, you'll need that bridle. Does the bridle measure 1.40 tall? Is the barrel diameter 9 mm when the bridle is in? If the barrel is 9 mm, then it's no good, obviously馃檨
Good luck, Chris
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JimInOz
路路Melbourne AustraliaGreat work Jim. Just read through this and Iike the way you identify a problem and a simple solution to resolve it馃憤.
Still waiting on a spring by the sound of it. I see lots of dimensions on here so, just to add another from my old FamaFlex book, which lists for a Rolex 390, their mainspring reference 430. Dimensions are (mm):
1.40 x 0.11 x 290 x 9
I see GR3698 at Cousins is 1.40 x 0.11 x 300 x 9 and looks suitable to me at first glance.
This is a manual spring so, you'll need that bridle. Does the bridle measure 1.40 tall? Is the barrel diameter 9 mm when the bridle is in? If the barrel is 9 mm, then it's no good, obviously馃檨
Good luck, Chris
Thanks Chris. The bridle is only 1.2mm tall and fits the barrel right up to the inner rim, there is some relief in the cap so a 1.4 might be OK.
The one Michael has is 1.3 x .09 x 260 8.5, so that may be a better fit, and being an auto it won't need the bridle taking up space.
I got this mainspring from cousins, I must have thought it was close.
If it is any good I will send it across FOC if you pay the carriage.
Thanks Michael, I think it may be a contender, I'll PM you later.
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JimInOz
路路Melbourne AustraliaI had to go back to see where we were up to.
So we have a cleaned up case with a new crown/stem tube, a new crystal arrived so it was on with the job.
First up was to find a straight sided die to press the crystal bezel down. Unfortunately all of my plastic dies were tapered (except for one I cut out for my Speedmaster bezel), so I had to find one.
A rummage through my parts boxes turned up an old clock barrel that was almost the perfect size, it just need a bit of turming to get a good fit, a hole tapped to fit on my press and we were away.
The crystal was fitted to the case, the bezel placed on and then pressed to seat the bezel.
Now to see if the case is water resistant. Not having a proper pressure tester yet, I "borrowed" something from my Darlin's kitchen cupboard. It was her vacuum storage thingy.
The theory is that the case is placed in water in a chamber, then air is evacuated causing a vacuum. If there is a leak in the case, a stream of bubbles will point to its location. So after pumping away I got a good vacuum, the crystal didn't pop and there were no bubbles.
The vacuum is then released and if there is still the possibility of a leak, atmospheric pressure will push some water into the case, so we need to carry out a condensation test.
First, onto my heat plate for about 30 minutes to bring the temperature of the case and contents up to about 45潞C.
Then straight into the garage for the condensation test, a drop of iced water is placed on the crystal.
Given about 30 seconds its then wiped off and the crystal examined to see if there is and condensation under the spot where the water was.
All good, I have a "water resistant" case at the very least.
The case was then dried and the bezel put back on. Looks good doesn't it.
So we have a cleaned up case with a new crown/stem tube, a new crystal arrived so it was on with the job.
First up was to find a straight sided die to press the crystal bezel down. Unfortunately all of my plastic dies were tapered (except for one I cut out for my Speedmaster bezel), so I had to find one.
A rummage through my parts boxes turned up an old clock barrel that was almost the perfect size, it just need a bit of turming to get a good fit, a hole tapped to fit on my press and we were away.
The crystal was fitted to the case, the bezel placed on and then pressed to seat the bezel.
Now to see if the case is water resistant. Not having a proper pressure tester yet, I "borrowed" something from my Darlin's kitchen cupboard. It was her vacuum storage thingy.
The theory is that the case is placed in water in a chamber, then air is evacuated causing a vacuum. If there is a leak in the case, a stream of bubbles will point to its location. So after pumping away I got a good vacuum, the crystal didn't pop and there were no bubbles.
The vacuum is then released and if there is still the possibility of a leak, atmospheric pressure will push some water into the case, so we need to carry out a condensation test.
First, onto my heat plate for about 30 minutes to bring the temperature of the case and contents up to about 45潞C.
Then straight into the garage for the condensation test, a drop of iced water is placed on the crystal.
Given about 30 seconds its then wiped off and the crystal examined to see if there is and condensation under the spot where the water was.
All good, I have a "water resistant" case at the very least.
The case was then dried and the bezel put back on. Looks good doesn't it.
Edited:
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JimInOz
路路Melbourne AustraliaBUT!
馃が馃槨馃が
The after market crystal must have a slightly different profile to an original, or a slightly larger diameter, because the bezel insert interferes with the crystal and will not rotate properly. Aaaaaaaaaaagh.
馃
So I decided to change the profile of the crystal to give the bezel some clearance as there is heaps of plastic to play with. I got the old crystal to do some experimentation with, and after some time I determined that the only way to hold the crystal on the lathe was with a purpose made adapter.
Luckily I found a crystal press die that was almost the right size to mount the crystal, It just needed a slight removal of material. The adapter was threaded onto a 5mm 酶 rod in the lathe chuck and turned down to 28mm 酶.
Then a clean ball of Blutack was used to hold the crystal onto the adapter. It's not strong enough to bear up to cutting with a tool, but with a diamond stone and a nail buffer I can cut/polish the area of the crystal that causes the problem while not removing any material from the base where the bezel locks it to the case.
So another chapter in the interesting saga of the servicing of this watch!
Now to get back to mainspring research.
馃が馃槨馃が
The after market crystal must have a slightly different profile to an original, or a slightly larger diameter, because the bezel insert interferes with the crystal and will not rotate properly. Aaaaaaaaaaagh.
馃
So I decided to change the profile of the crystal to give the bezel some clearance as there is heaps of plastic to play with. I got the old crystal to do some experimentation with, and after some time I determined that the only way to hold the crystal on the lathe was with a purpose made adapter.
Luckily I found a crystal press die that was almost the right size to mount the crystal, It just needed a slight removal of material. The adapter was threaded onto a 5mm 酶 rod in the lathe chuck and turned down to 28mm 酶.
Then a clean ball of Blutack was used to hold the crystal onto the adapter. It's not strong enough to bear up to cutting with a tool, but with a diamond stone and a nail buffer I can cut/polish the area of the crystal that causes the problem while not removing any material from the base where the bezel locks it to the case.
So another chapter in the interesting saga of the servicing of this watch!
Now to get back to mainspring research.
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JimInOz
路路Melbourne AustraliaNo one said this would be easy! 馃榾 But yes, this kind of "fiddling around" can eat up a huge amount of time, and time is money...at least for some of us.
Spot on there Al 馃憤.
I guess in one sense I'm lucky by not having to rely on my watchmaking to feed a family, pay utilities, pay fuel etc etc.
Having an understanding owner who doesn't keep bugging me every day or so with "is it ready yet?" also helps.
Now back to mainspring research.
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Fabrice M
路This is such a great read. It feels like reading a suspense novel. Looking forward the next chapter. Cheers.
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JimInOz
路路Melbourne AustraliaAfter a hiatus, progress again.
From far away England
In the United K
A mainspring arrived,
In the mail today
Fit it right now or have a cold beer
A difficult choice, I just can't say
K..Tsssssshhhhhh
From far away England
In the United K
A mainspring arrived,
In the mail today
Fit it right now or have a cold beer
A difficult choice, I just can't say
K..Tsssssshhhhhh
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JimInOz
路路Melbourne AustraliaNo..........K....Tssssssshhhhhhh is the sound made by a can of chilly beer as you pop the tab!
We don't have an emoticon for that. Sadly.
We don't have an emoticon for that. Sadly.
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JimInOz
路路Melbourne Australia
I think I need a few of them!
馃槨
After getting the mainspring after a long wait, I got things ready. Clean barrel lubed with four dots of braking grease, mainspring fitted, barrel closed up and checked for good end shake, fitted to the movement and the clunky hold down plate fitted.
Testing manual winding.
It's tricky, because the way the movement was modified means that the auto bridge holds the crown wheel in place, so to test the movement without having that fitted means having to hold the crown wheel down with a stick while winding the mainspring (train held with a small bit of clean Rodico).
Happy with the way it went, I wanted to let the mainspring down so did a part wind and moved the click out of the way, which is a real PITA trying to hold three things together. After a few turns I needed to get another grip on the crown so I let the click go, BUT! the little bugger didn't come back.
Arrrrrrgh! The mainspring was let down OK and I found that the click spring had broken.
So, another click spring needed for an orphan caliber that hasn't been made for years.
Luckily I found an FEF 350 click spring in France so it's now on the way.
I'm starting to not like this movement.
Edited:
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jaguar11
路A nice read again while I have my coffee....
