On My Bench - Tudor Submariner 7928

JimInOz · Dec 13, 2019

Archer
Hi Jim,

I see you have bought the Fleurier 350 manual winding spring. Before you install it, please measure the old spring you removed, as I think you may have the wrong spring.

Looking in by Bestfit book, the FEF 350 calls for a slightly different spring than the spring you have. Your is a 5 1/2 X 10 1/2 X 11 3/4 Dennison, while Bestfit calls for a 5 X 10 X 12 1/2. Those differences aside, the FEF 390 calls for a different spring completely - a 4 1/2 X 11 X 10.

Just want to be sure you have the right spring before you try to install it, because once you do there's no chance of sending it back.

Cheers, Al

Thanks Al, I'll measure everything and cross ref to the chart to see what I took out.
I'll also get back to the seller who advertised it as fit for a Tudor Cal 390.

dx009
@JimInOz I've seen the same type of image/photo technique in other people's photos (some weren't watchmakers or anything like that) and I would really like to recreate it as I'm liking it so much.

Don't know if you've already done this but could you please share how you take such photos ? For example how come you manage to light up the watches/movements withot getting that annoying light reflexion into the metal ? I imagine you use diffused light ?

Cheers!

I mostly try to use natural daylight and get the best results on cloudy days. If I can't get enough natural light, I have a light ring on my camera setup.

dx009 · Dec 13, 2019

Ok but how come you don't get any shiny light reflexion in the metal ? Does the special light not create such reflexion in the metal ? Does it somehow difuse the light, or something ? Do you use one of those polarizing filters ?

JimInOz · Dec 14, 2019

So much for thinking it was simple to find a mainspring.

😡

Advice from Al saved me from a potential problem. This mainspring has to be the most elusive little ****** on the horological planet.

Here is the current situation.

Screen Shot 2019-12-15 at 2.44.13 PM.png

I've been searching all of the suppliers known to me without success. I'd like to keep as close as possible to the original width/thickness and could probably go a few millimetres over/under if I could find a generic replacement (well, it'll have to be generic, there are no OEM bits for this).

I thought Cousins would have one but no luck so far.

Is there anybody out there who can point me to the end of the rainbow?

In the meantime I'll continue searching but If I can't find a replacement the old one will have to go back in 🙁.

JimInOz · Dec 14, 2019

dx009
Ok but how come you don't get any shiny light reflexion in the metal ? Does the special light not create such reflexion in the metal ? Does it somehow difuse the light, or something ? Do you use one of those polarizing filters ?

I found that to get shots without glare/reflection you have to use natural daylight for the best results.
You can use a light ring like I showed, it has a diffuser but still causes a bit of reflection. I often use it just for disassembly/assembly shots if I don't have a tech guide for the caliber I'm working on.

Getting perfect shots is all about playing with the light until you find the best compromise, or buying expensive lighting setups.

Lotus_Eater8815 · Dec 15, 2019

JimInOz
So much for thinking it was simple to find a mainspring.

😡

Advice from Al saved me from a potential problem. This mainspring has to be the most elusive little ****** on the horological planet.

Here is the current situation.

I've been searching all of the suppliers known to me without success. I'd like to keep as close as possible to the original width/thickness and could probably go a few millimetres over/under if I could find a generic replacement (well, it'll have to be generic, there are no OEM bits for this).

I thought Cousins would have one but no luck so far.

Is there anybody out there who can point me to the end of the rainbow?

In the meantime I'll continue searching but If I can't find a replacement the old one will have to go back in 🙁.

What did the seller have to say about the spring not being correct? 🫨

JimInOz · Dec 15, 2019

Lotus_Eater8815
What did the seller have to say about the spring not being correct? 🫨

He was quite good about it. He communicated quickly and followed up the problem.
It appears that his reference book was incorrect and he refunded me the full amount and told me to keep the mainspring, so I can't complain about his service.

padders · Dec 15, 2019

Fascinating write up so far. I stumbled on it when searching for info in the Rolex 1030. I have just acquired a complete but tired 1950s OP with 1030. How similar is it to this Tudor movement? The rotor for instance looks superficially very similar. I’ll have a Pro do the service work but are parts going to be an issue there too do you think?

JimInOz · Dec 16, 2019

padders
Fascinating write up so far. I stumbled on it when searching for info in the Rolex 1030. I have just acquired a complete but tired 1950s OP with 1030. How similar is it to this Tudor movement? The rotor for instance looks superficially very similar. I’ll have a Pro do the service work but are parts going to be an issue there too do you think?

Sorry to say I haven't got to learning about 1030s 😁. Too busy with the 390.

I think they were the first in house caliber produced by Rolex, and that's all i know at the moment.

Engee · Dec 16, 2019

JimInOz
OK, change of plan.
5. Clean the dial and re-lume the dial and hands.

😁

Archer · Dec 16, 2019

padders
Fascinating write up so far. I stumbled on it when searching for info in the Rolex 1030. I have just acquired a complete but tired 1950s OP with 1030. How similar is it to this Tudor movement? The rotor for instance looks superficially very similar. I’ll have a Pro do the service work but are parts going to be an issue there too do you think?

The reference to the 1030 was made by me in conversations Jim and I were having about this Tudor, and how different automatic winding systems are serviced. The two movements are not related, but I was just expressing that the 1030 is unusual in the way it's constructed.

Not to hijack this thread, but this is what the 1030 looks like from some photos I took when servicing one a number of years ago. The external appearance of the automatic winding is initially very deceiving:

Movement out of the case and rotor removed:

Hey there's stuff under this plate!

And eventually you get to a point where you have remove another plate:

Note the rather strange looking arrangement at the ratchet wheel:

Here are the parts removed from that area:

And you can see the Wolf's tooth design on the ratchet wheel that is part of the reversing wheel system on this movement:

Once you get past the automatic, it's a pretty basic movement, but that automatic portion is not something you see every day. Some of the older Bulova movements used Wolf's teeth wheel in the auto winding systems, and those can wear and are not easy to find, or cheap when you do find them. If the watchmaker you are sending this to is a Rolex guy, he may have a stash of parts or know where to get them, but generally parts for these very old movements are not easily found...

Okay now back to the Tudor, and over to Jim...

Cheers, Al

padders · Dec 17, 2019

V interesting Al. As you say our discussion runs the risk of a hijack so I will contact you direct.

Good luck Jim, it seems you are going well. Apologies for muddying the water re the Tudor 390, the reason I did is the the two part rotor with central clover clip fitted there looks exactly like that on my 1030, so I assumed that they may have something in common. Perhaps they do but it is only the auto wind mech.

JimInOz · Dec 17, 2019

Archer
.........Not to hijack this thread, but this is what the 1030 looks like ................
Okay now back to the Tudor, and over to Jim...

Cheers, Al

Hardly a hijack if it's educational, related to the subject, not political and is interesting. The Tudor has its frustrating moments, but some bright points on the horizon, more to come on Thursday.

padders
.....Good luck Jim, it seems you are going well. Apologies for muddying the water re the Tudor 390, ..............

No probs mate, as long as it's related content and not kittens or Speedmasters 😉.

Archer · Dec 17, 2019

JimInOz
Hardly a hijack if it's educational, related to the subject, not political and is interesting.

Would have been more educational if my brain had been in gear...the movement I've shown is not a 1030, but a 645, so earlier than a 1030... ::facepalm1::

larryganz · Dec 17, 2019

Archer
Would have been more educational if my brain had been in gear...the movement I've shown is not a 1030, but a 645, so earlier than a 1030...

You're the pro, so we'll let you call it whatever you want 😁

JimInOz · Dec 18, 2019

I was going to do some restoration on the case this afternoon. But after doing gardening/mowing etc for my mate I'm just going to take it easy.

Besides, as my watch cleaning equipment (ultrasonic/cleaning machine) and other heavier tools are in the garage, and the garage is a bit warm today, I think I'll keep on taking it easy 😁.

Screen Shot 2019-12-18 at 6.08.45 PM.png

Archer · Dec 18, 2019

Don't blame you with the heat you guys are having right now...

JimInOz · Dec 18, 2019

Well it's a lot nicer today, 22ºC so I'm working on the case in the garage again.

Hmmmmmmmmm............Now what did he say?

"Polish it." or "DON'T polish it!"

Oh the temptation!

Just kidding!

😁

Dan S · Dec 18, 2019

JimInOz
Well it's a lot nicer today, 22ºC so I'm working on the case in the garage again.

Hmmmmmmmmm............Now what did he say?

"Polish it." or "DON'T polish it!"

Oh the temptation!

Just kidding!

😁

My watchmaker has the same sense of humor. He'll send me an email saying "I can't remember whether you wanted this one polished or not."

JimInOz · Dec 19, 2019

I had to get the old stem tube out, it was in rather crap condition.

But it gets worse. No seals, just metal shavings!

And this seal has to be compromised.

Even after cleaning I wasn't happy to keep it.

The only way I could remove it was with an "improvised" tube removal tool.

And voila!

After removal, the case was cleaned up, burrs and bulges removed ready for the next step, which was to get all of the new parts ready and do a check fit.

What's that funny wheel at the end I hear you ask.
Well my el cheapo "Rolex" tube tool does not fit properly, but I found that the pinion on an old wheel does a great job of tightening the tube. All seals were lubricated and everything put together.

One step closer!

JimInOz · Dec 19, 2019

A bit out of sequence, but it was a two part job.

The reason why.

The Rolex Tropic 19 crystal is held to the case by a press-on bezel (that I called a "crystal ring).

Not trusting my bezel remover to get into such a small seam, I used the tried and true method, starting with a safety razor blade until I had enough room for a larger blade.

And finally I could go around the perimeter with a case knife.

And without any sign of gashed fingers at all!

On My Bench - Tudor Submariner 7928

JimInOz

dx009

JimInOz

JimInOz

Lotus_Eater8815

JimInOz

padders

JimInOz

Engee

Archer

padders

JimInOz

Archer

larryganz

JimInOz

Archer

JimInOz

Dan S

JimInOz

JimInOz

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