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iamvr
·Dear OF
This will be a longer post with lots of pictures, apologies in advance.
I'd like to share my recent learning experience buying a vintage Speedmaster Pro 145.012 on local auction site. As the title implies, I'm not an expert and had to consult several seasoned Speedy collectors before bidding on the auction. The great thing about OF is, once you've done your homework i.e. prior research yourself, more experienced members are happy to help you reach the next level and/or make a better informed decision.
The assessment, both my own as well as the senior members', that finally led me to pull the trigger shouldn't stay in the dark, but may be useful for other aspiring purchasers of a 145.012. At least there will be another pictorial example, if all the background story, bores you. Hence this thread.
Let's first look at the seller's pictures, which are rather poor, but caught my interest, because if everything is correct with the watch, I thought perhaps competition would be lower.
The first step for me was to perform a basic hardware check to rule out an obvious Frankenwatch using the Moonwatch Only book, speedmaster101.com and of course examples on OF as resources and reference points.
- Movement serial number: Though not clearly legible, it's for sure a higher 24mil number putting it at the rather early end of the movement range for a 145.012.
- Hands: Correct hands, the chrono sweep hand with the drop shaped end is correct for the earlier 145.012
- Correct dial
- DON bezel
- Crown is a later replacement, but I don't mind.
- As for the pushers, I wasn't sure (but learnt later that the replacement would look exactly the same as the original)
- The bracelet is a correct 1039, but as opposed to the correct 516 it comes with 16 end links. I (wrongly) assumed them to be identical or interchangeable (like the 70 and 570 end links for the BoR bracelets).
So for me, it passed the first basic check.
The second step, the assessment of the condition, was obviously a bit harder. I initially assessed the state of the DON bezel as OK or good, and the case as sharp given that the original brushing on the sides of the case is still clearly visible. I found the color of the lume attractive, but where I struggled and had to involve the seasoned members and experts was to answer the question whether the lume on the dial and hands was original. My concerns were the somewhat "wobbly" form of the lume plots, in particular at 9 o'clock and the non-matching lume color of the hands among each other, i.e. the minute hand having a darker, discolored lume compared to the hour and chrono sweep hand. I was leaning towards original, but wanted to have it confirmed, before spending a serious amount.
My thanks go to @Dan S, @Passover, @ndgal, and @Aludic, whose comments and insights helped form the decision to eventually go for the watch. I owe a special thanks to @Aludic who wrote me an in-depth assessment of the watch pre and post purchase, adding to or correcting my initial assessment. They inputs were very helpful, so should be shared publicly so others may benefit from them:
- DON bezel: Original but the condition is worse than "good" given the major flaking at btw. 110 and 120 and should be taken into account for pricing.
- Case condition confirmed to be sharpe with defined case lines and solid case back.
- Bracelet: yes, 16 end links are not correct and don't have exactly the same size, but are as valuable as 516, and should not affect the value much. So that was good news. (I found these threads about the Speedy bracelets later here and here for reference).
- Dial lume: It's hard to summarize the experts opinion in short, and I don't want to put words in people's mouth, but I nobody was in the strict relume camp, but the broader consensus was leaning towards originality with a various degree of caution attached given the poor sellers pictures. Better pictures in better lighting and preferably a UV shot would be needed to confirm with confidence. But hints mentioned for originality were: "wobbly" or recessed lume is not uncommon, non-matching lume of the dial and hands are a good sign (as they came from different suppliers), relumed dials often look too uniform and too perfect.
- Lume on hands: In fact more questions were raised about the lume on the hands than the dial given the difference in color. It was suggested that perhaps the hour hand and chrono hand were later replacement or there was a lume job done on the minute hand.
In the end it was up to me to decide whether I would want to take the risk. The experts comments gave me enough comfort to go head and also the fact that the seller offered 8 day return option.
As for the bidding strategy, I was basing my limit on the speedmaster101 pricing chart for a "good" example, added $2000 for the bracelet, deducted some for the "fair" DON bezel.... and won 😀
Here are the pictures of the watch after arrival:
The color of the lume looks even better in real life. Under the loupe it was clear that not only the 9 o'clock marker is "wobbly" but several. They all have the same amount of dirt covering them. And thanks to @Aludic pointing out that there are no obvious traces of binding agents or other traces typically left after a lume job. And finally the UV shot removed any remaining doubts for me.
If anybody still thinks that I made mistake, I'm still within my return period 😀, but I hope that channel will remain quiet.
I'm very happy with my purchase, but I wouldn't have had the courage to go for without the help of more experienced fellow OF members.
Thanks for your time, I hope it's somewhat useful for the community.
This will be a longer post with lots of pictures, apologies in advance.
I'd like to share my recent learning experience buying a vintage Speedmaster Pro 145.012 on local auction site. As the title implies, I'm not an expert and had to consult several seasoned Speedy collectors before bidding on the auction. The great thing about OF is, once you've done your homework i.e. prior research yourself, more experienced members are happy to help you reach the next level and/or make a better informed decision.
The assessment, both my own as well as the senior members', that finally led me to pull the trigger shouldn't stay in the dark, but may be useful for other aspiring purchasers of a 145.012. At least there will be another pictorial example, if all the background story, bores you. Hence this thread.
Let's first look at the seller's pictures, which are rather poor, but caught my interest, because if everything is correct with the watch, I thought perhaps competition would be lower.
The first step for me was to perform a basic hardware check to rule out an obvious Frankenwatch using the Moonwatch Only book, speedmaster101.com and of course examples on OF as resources and reference points.
- Movement serial number: Though not clearly legible, it's for sure a higher 24mil number putting it at the rather early end of the movement range for a 145.012.
- Hands: Correct hands, the chrono sweep hand with the drop shaped end is correct for the earlier 145.012
- Correct dial
- DON bezel
- Crown is a later replacement, but I don't mind.
- As for the pushers, I wasn't sure (but learnt later that the replacement would look exactly the same as the original)
- The bracelet is a correct 1039, but as opposed to the correct 516 it comes with 16 end links. I (wrongly) assumed them to be identical or interchangeable (like the 70 and 570 end links for the BoR bracelets).
So for me, it passed the first basic check.
The second step, the assessment of the condition, was obviously a bit harder. I initially assessed the state of the DON bezel as OK or good, and the case as sharp given that the original brushing on the sides of the case is still clearly visible. I found the color of the lume attractive, but where I struggled and had to involve the seasoned members and experts was to answer the question whether the lume on the dial and hands was original. My concerns were the somewhat "wobbly" form of the lume plots, in particular at 9 o'clock and the non-matching lume color of the hands among each other, i.e. the minute hand having a darker, discolored lume compared to the hour and chrono sweep hand. I was leaning towards original, but wanted to have it confirmed, before spending a serious amount.
My thanks go to @Dan S, @Passover, @ndgal, and @Aludic, whose comments and insights helped form the decision to eventually go for the watch. I owe a special thanks to @Aludic who wrote me an in-depth assessment of the watch pre and post purchase, adding to or correcting my initial assessment. They inputs were very helpful, so should be shared publicly so others may benefit from them:
- DON bezel: Original but the condition is worse than "good" given the major flaking at btw. 110 and 120 and should be taken into account for pricing.
- Case condition confirmed to be sharpe with defined case lines and solid case back.
- Bracelet: yes, 16 end links are not correct and don't have exactly the same size, but are as valuable as 516, and should not affect the value much. So that was good news. (I found these threads about the Speedy bracelets later here and here for reference).
- Dial lume: It's hard to summarize the experts opinion in short, and I don't want to put words in people's mouth, but I nobody was in the strict relume camp, but the broader consensus was leaning towards originality with a various degree of caution attached given the poor sellers pictures. Better pictures in better lighting and preferably a UV shot would be needed to confirm with confidence. But hints mentioned for originality were: "wobbly" or recessed lume is not uncommon, non-matching lume of the dial and hands are a good sign (as they came from different suppliers), relumed dials often look too uniform and too perfect.
- Lume on hands: In fact more questions were raised about the lume on the hands than the dial given the difference in color. It was suggested that perhaps the hour hand and chrono hand were later replacement or there was a lume job done on the minute hand.
In the end it was up to me to decide whether I would want to take the risk. The experts comments gave me enough comfort to go head and also the fact that the seller offered 8 day return option.
As for the bidding strategy, I was basing my limit on the speedmaster101 pricing chart for a "good" example, added $2000 for the bracelet, deducted some for the "fair" DON bezel.... and won 😀
Here are the pictures of the watch after arrival:
The color of the lume looks even better in real life. Under the loupe it was clear that not only the 9 o'clock marker is "wobbly" but several. They all have the same amount of dirt covering them. And thanks to @Aludic pointing out that there are no obvious traces of binding agents or other traces typically left after a lume job. And finally the UV shot removed any remaining doubts for me.
If anybody still thinks that I made mistake, I'm still within my return period 😀, but I hope that channel will remain quiet.
I'm very happy with my purchase, but I wouldn't have had the courage to go for without the help of more experienced fellow OF members.
Thanks for your time, I hope it's somewhat useful for the community.
