Is this legal from Bucherer?

JwRosenthal · Oct 20, 2019

sjg22
I actually disagree with this, although understand that writing a letter begging to buy a $400,000 car certainly sounds patently absurd.

However, there are definitively more buyers for these cars than cars available. Furthermore, there is a massive issue with flippers in the car world, as there is in the watch world. So I do credit them for at least trying to find a way to get the small amount of cars into the “right” owner’s hands. The other options are what? Leaving it to retailers to try and bully customers into buying 3 solid gold rolex before allowing them the privilege of buying one steel submariner? Or the equivalent with Fords?

The current system is broken, which is what my point was - and that it’s at least admirable some brands are trying to think outside the box on how to solve this issue.

Or as a consumer just opt out of the madness- do you really need that Rolex? Do you really need that Ford? Are you willing to play their game and perpetuate the bad behavior? I for one am not. There are plenty of other options out there.

sjg22 · Oct 20, 2019

JwRosenthal
Or as a consumer just opt out of the madness- do you really need that Rolex? Do you really need that Ford? Are you willing to play their game and perpetuate the bad behavior? I for one am not. There are plenty of other options out there.

We don’t need any of these things. Yet we’re on a watch forum talking about watches. You’re talking existentially about whether or not these products are necessary - it’s clearly not a question of “need” as none of them are necessary in the age of Uber, iPhones and the Apple Watch.

Rather, it’s a question of supply and demand, and determining the optimal way of selling highly desired items in limited supply in as fair a way as possible to all interested parties (brand, buyer, retailer).

The OP would like to buy one of these products. I’m merely suggesting there are ways that other brands have gone about trying to solve this problem; I’m sure there are better ways that haven’t been tried, but should be. We could throw up our hands and declare the system broken and opt out entirely - or perhaps try and strategize a way to make it better.

JwRosenthal · Oct 20, 2019

sjg22
We don’t need any of these things. Yet we’re on a watch forum talking about watches - it’s clearly not a question of “need”...

rather, it’s a question of supply and demand, and determining the optimal way of selling highly desired items in limited supply.

The OP would like to buy one of these products. I’m merely suggesting there are ways that other brands have gone about solving this problem. And I’m sure there are better ways that haven’t been tried, but should be.

I completely agree that this is logistically what they are doing, supply & demand and finding the best course forward. But it’s insidious in that the tactics they use are clearly predatory. If it were truly a first come first serve waiting list- then I would have no issue with it. But it’s the game that’s the problem. They demand an almost subscription form of loyalty for which you will be rewarded. Our lives have all become so subscription based over the last 10 years- I don’t rent a video in a store, I subscribe to a service for movies (then pay for the good ones as the bundled ones tend to be crap). You don’t pay for phone service, you subscribe to a service that allows you to opt into better programs though customer loyalty and milestones- for which you pay.
This is the new world order- I get it. Retailers have discovered that creating a subscription service of clients keeps them coming back. My problem
Is that everyone complains about it, but doesn’t nothing to change it. Like the frog in warm water as the heat gets turned up...my this is getting warm...yet it still sits there.

I feel like the emporer who has no clothes when reading some of these Rolex threads- I just want to shout - you’re being screwed- run for your lives, you’re not lucky- they are laughing at you!!

Evitzee · Oct 21, 2019

Come on people, calm down, relax and stop with the hard core swearing. I know it is supposedly cool on the progressive team these days to swear and drop the F bomb in public, but a lot of people don't like it. And it's not necessary to advance an argument.

Ford could have sold a lot more of their GT's then they decided to make, at least they tried to sell them to real enthusiasts who weren't going to flip them (Jay Leno and the like), the exact thing people are so roiled up about here on OF. Commerce is a tricky thing......we all try to get the best price when we buy anything, if a discount is offered we take it, we fight for the best price, get extras thrown in, and of course brag about what a great deal we scored. The door swings both ways, some products command a premium on the market, that's just the way it is. It's called a Manufacturers Suggested Retail Price for a reason.....if the market says the MSRP is too low the price will rise. Rolex SS Daytona's have proven that for decades, you can try to get one from a dealer which will probably fail, buy one at the real market price, or do without. Or buy something else. But I fail to see the continuous freakout at the prices of a pretty slim sliver of the watch market. If a dealer says you have to buy some other watches so you can get the one you want, you can play their game or vote with your feet. Your choice.

Do you need that Rolex? Nope. A Ford GT? Of course not. You think these companies are laughing at you? What do you think Apple execs are doing every day? They're selling iPhones made with cheap Chinese labor with HUGE profit margins to people that really don't need that Apple phone, other options are available for a lot less money. People will buy what they want and buy at a price they believe is fair. Many people are sheeple and freely spend their money to be part of a group, to look smart, to feel good about themselves. Doesn't bother me, invest in Apple stock. No need to obsess or rain thunderbolts out of your keyboard at all of this. It's called plain old capitalism. It works.

Martin_J_N · Oct 21, 2019

Try this,

Write an open letter to the Manager of the store, the CEO's of the Companies involved and send it to the local and national papers for the area, in the letter explain the situation completely factually, no embellishments, and express your disappointment that as a result of what they asked you to do, you will no longer be able to buy from the shop and that you will no longer buy the brand because they condone the practice by not stopping it.

You may get nothing, but what you will have is the satisfaction of making the issue public, others will see the letter and may have similar stories to tell which is never good for the shop/brand.

Put shop employees names (if you know them) as Mr X or Ms X as you are explaining the situation that exists not having a pop at individuals.

The key to the letter is simply to ask the shop to explain its practices by replying to the letter, it is unlikely that they will want to do this as they cannot justify their actions so you may get a resolution that you want.

You could also re-visit the shop, speak to the manager if possible explain the situation and that you intend to go public if you do not get the watch that you asked for and that had been promised to you by X without any pre-conditions.

If you are polite and courteous during the conversation this will help when the letter is written, difficult to get a response if you have told the staff to Foxtrot Oscar and stormed out.

I have used this twice, once with a restaurant and once with a travel company on both occasions I received a grovelling apology and some restitution when I revisited.

Have a go you have nothing to lose.

Screwbacks · Oct 21, 2019

To the moon
So I've purchased a few watches from Bucherer and had pleasant experiences with them. However, we have had our name down for a Rolex LV for 14 months with the hope of getting the piece in time for our sons 21st birthday. I have had monthly conversations and updates regarding timings and reassurance that the assistant manager is doing all he can to meet the timeframe. Well it's within a month of our sons birthday so I contact the store and receive the news that there is a possibility that they can secure the piece for this week but now there is a catch... I have to purchase an additional piece of equal or greater value and of not of a desirable model, to which I was given a few choices ie, Bucherer blue editions or maybe the new Bremont? Well this has never once been mentioned before but as I've now apparently been bumped up the list this is what's required.... Surely this is blackmail?? Or at least under handed practice. My wife and I are devestated as you can imagine. I've written an email after visiting the store and actually being presented with LV and the choice of the additional pieces to which I declined and he couldn't of been quicker to put the Rolex back in the safe..... Any advice? Apart from, don't return to the store 😕

i think you need a good detective. 😉 assuming you have made a written reservation
without a promise of those riders, then this is a job for a watch detective. 😉

Stufflers Mom · Oct 21, 2019

Martin_J_N
Try this,

Write an open letter to the Manager of the store, the CEO's of the Companies involved and send it to the local and national papers for the area, in the letter explain the situation completely factually, no embellishments, and express your disappointment that as a result of what they asked you to do, you will no longer be able to buy from the shop and that you will no longer buy the brand because they condone the practice by not stopping it.

You may get nothing, but what you will have is the satisfaction of making the issue public, others will see the letter and may have similar stories to tell which is never good for the shop/brand.

Put shop employees names (if you know them) as Mr X or Ms X as you are explaining the situation that exists not having a pop at individuals.

The key to the letter is simply to ask the shop to explain its practices by replying to the letter, it is unlikely that they will want to do this as they cannot justify their actions so you may get a resolution that you want.

You could also re-visit the shop, speak to the manager if possible explain the situation and that you intend to go public if you do not get the watch that you asked for and that had been promised to you by X without any pre-conditions.

If you are polite and courteous during the conversation this will help when the letter is written, difficult to get a response if you have told the staff to Foxtrot Oscar and stormed out.

I have used this twice, once with a restaurant and once with a travel company on both occasions I received a grovelling apology and some restitution when I revisited.

Have a go you have nothing to lose.

Or you could stand outside the shop on a Saturday afternoon telling anyone who approaches their door about the company policy and how you were treated and hand out leaflets.

Epictetus · Oct 21, 2019

There's a new episode of Bark and Jack published yesterday where he talks to a die-hard watch collector who refuses to buy Rolex precisely because of the way Rolex orientated ADs treat their customers. Very pertinent to this thread indeed.

Martin_J_N · Oct 21, 2019

Stufflers Mom
Or you could stand outside the shop on a Saturday afternoon telling anyone who approaches their door about the company policy and how you were treated and hand out leaflets.

Yep, that would create some publicity, although you may get moved on by the local constabulary 😁

Epictetus · Oct 21, 2019

Funnily enough, a post by Bucherer showed up on my wall today and I just could not keep me calm. I shared OP's story about the extortion the experienced at Bucherer on their post and funnily enough, they responded apologising and they asked for OP's name and the store location. So @To the moon, if you feel you wanna escalate the matter, now's your time 😀 Either chime in on the post or PM me and I'll forward the deets myself.

JwRosenthal · Oct 21, 2019

Epictetus
Funnily enough, a post by Bucherer showed up on my wall today and I just could not keep me calm. I shared OP's story about the extortion the experienced at Bucherer on their post and funnily enough, they responded apologising and they asked for OP's name and the store location. So @To the moon, if you feel you wanna escalate the matter, now's your time 😀 Either chime in on the post or PM me and I'll forward the deets myself.

Now this could be interesting. 🍿

Larry S · Oct 21, 2019

JwRosenthal
And in my letter to Ford I would state that I want my thank you for the $5.9 Billion they borrowed from me in 2009- and they can go fυck themselves. Thank goodness I had no intention of ever owning a Ford....I’ll stick with my old German and Jeeps.

I don’t play these games, it’s an immediate walk out for me. I am the customer, I’m not

As I recall, Ford declined the “loan”.

Martin_J_N · Oct 21, 2019

Epictetus
Funnily enough, a post by Bucherer showed up on my wall today and I just could not keep me calm. I shared OP's story about the extortion the experienced at Bucherer on their post and funnily enough, they responded apologising and they asked for OP's name and the store location. So @To the moon, if you feel you wanna escalate the matter, now's your time 😀 Either chime in on the post or PM me and I'll forward the deets myself.

Nicely done, Companies do not want to be seen as coercing customers into buying goods they don't want just to get something they do want, definitely not the publicity that they want.

M'Bob · Oct 21, 2019

Evitzee
Calm down, relax and stop with the hard core swearing. I know it is supposedly cool on the progressive team these days to swear and drop the F bomb in public, but a lot of people don't like it. And it's not necessary to advance an argument

It's just a word, and if not used extensively, retains its potent emphasis, both in speech and writing. But, yes, if punctuated by every other word, it's kick is completely deflated, and it comes off as trashy or trying too hard.

Archer · Oct 21, 2019

To the moon
Surely this is blackmail?? Or at least under handed practice.

I am not sure what the consumer laws are, and it would depend on exactly what was stated in past encounters, but it might be argued that you had a verbal contract, and they changed the terms. It isn't exactly a "bait and switch" (usually prohibited by consumer laws) but it's pretty close.

The idea to write a letter and send it to newspapers is fine, but I would also contact whoever the local TV station has for consumer complaints, and see if they are interested in the story.

Cheers, Al

Martin_J_N · Oct 21, 2019

Archer
I am not sure what the consumer laws are, and it would depend on exactly what was stated in past encounters, but it might be argued that you had a verbal contract, and they changed the terms. It isn't exactly a "bait and switch" (usually prohibited by consumer laws) but it's pretty close.

The idea to write a letter and send it to newspapers is fine, but I would also contact whoever the local TV station has for consumer complaints, and see if they are interested in the story.

Cheers, Al

The issue surely is the public admission that you must buy X to get Y?

Just adding you to a waiting list is okay, as is telling you that you may or may not get the watch in 12,18, 24 or more months as it is popular and a lot of people have already ordered one. However that time period is dependant on how much you have spent with the AD, the more you spend the shorter the wait, in theory anyway, but you shouldn't be told this, the SA should just check and say we can probably get this watch in ....... months.

The AD should never say to a customer you must buy X to get Y IMHO, eventhough in private this may be the policy they apply.

sgrossma · Oct 21, 2019

Obviously awful, but in some respects, I appreciate the transparency. It is better than being told you are on a list and then waiting forever not knowing.

gatorcpa · Oct 21, 2019

Larry S
As I recall, Ford declined the “loan”.

Actually, they didn’t.

The loan commitments announced today by the President include $5.9 billion for Ford Motor Company to transform factories across Illinois, Kentucky, Michigan, Missouri, and Ohio to produce 13 more fuel efficient models.

https://www.energy.gov/articles/oba...oans-advanced-technologies-ford-motor-company

gatorcpa

Foo2rama · Oct 21, 2019

Inform them that doing this is against their resellers agreement with Rolex.

you would hate for them to loose allocation of future watches due to this.

Braindrain · Oct 21, 2019

As I understand it, Rolex HQ doesn't care as long as ADs aren't selling above MSRP.

Is this legal from Bucherer?

JwRosenthal

sjg22

JwRosenthal

Evitzee

Martin_J_N

Screwbacks

Stufflers Mom

Epictetus

Martin_J_N

Epictetus

JwRosenthal

Larry S

Martin_J_N

M'Bob

Archer

Martin_J_N

sgrossma

gatorcpa

Foo2rama

Braindrain

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