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Is there such a person as a Helbros guru?

Barking mad
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If you do exist, I could really use your help. I have this watch in my possession and I am struggling to pin down an identity.
It is a Helbros Invincible diver with no date and unusual bezel. I have searched high and low to find any information but keep drawing blanks. I have tried to narrow down by movement but even that didn't pan out as I couldn't find a match.

Pics below, sorry about the movement pi, it is not mine and I don't have the tool to remove the case back.
Thank you in advance.
IMG_0148.jpeg IMG_0153.jpeg IMG_0158.jpeg IMG_0159.jpeg IMG_0163.jpeg IMG_0164.jpeg IMG_0165.jpeg 1668060495645.jpeg
 
JwRosenthal
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Interesting- Sea Scout dial with world time bezel and slimmer case profile. I looked in catalog pics from late 60’s-70ish and don’t see it. Google search for “Helbros World
Time” did one other world timer and another bezel type but not in that case.
These watches were sold in PX’s so it’s possible this was an attempt at a “pilot’s watch” whereas the Sea Timer and Sea Scout were popular among infantrymen.

Can you take a better pic of the movement? Curious if it hacks.
 
Barking mad
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JwRosenthal JwRosenthal
Interesting- Sea Scout dial with world time bezel and slimmer case profile. I looked in catalog pics from late 60’s-70ish and don’t see it. Google search for “Helbros World
Time” did one other world timer and another bezel type but not in that case.
These watches were sold in PX’s so it’s possible this was an attempt at a “pilot’s watch” whereas the Sea Timer and Sea Scout were popular among infantrymen.

Can you take a better pic of the movement? Curious if it hacks.
Thank you for the reply. Will post a better pic of the movement when I can safely remove the back. It doesn't hack. Should the bezel rotate?

I have tried numerous google searches with different topics but couldn't find anything.

Cheers
 
JwRosenthal
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Yes, a world time bezel should rotate. That said- it is possible it was a regular Sea Scout that someone lost the bezel and had a World time bezel from another watch glued on there. You won’t know until
Your try to take it apart.
the keyed back is different though than I have seen on other Helbros. They take a type of open hex wrench that was popular in the 40’s-60’s.
 
Barking mad
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I have popped the bezel off and there is no rotating components but I was wondering if it was just controlled by friction and this one is tight. Was contemplating cleaning and lubing it.

I couldn't find the same style of caseback on any other Helbros. I believe the watch may be original other than the bezel but not even sure about that. Interesting puzzle. On the whole the watch is in pretty good condition and keeping good time.

Will keep digging😀
 
Tony C.
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Is there such a person as a Helbros guru?

The answer to your question is yes, but unfortunately he lives with his grandmother in a small town in Germany, and they have no internet.

😁

Seriously, though, this is a fairly good resource, though you may have seen it:

https://forgottenwatchbrands.wordpress.com/2016/01/02/helbros-watches/

I have seen a watch similar to yours, though I do not recall the world time bezel. Here is one sold on this forum, but with a different movement:

https://omegaforums.net/threads/helbros-invincible-skin-diver-manual-wind-serviced.130155/

and an Invincible chronograph:

https://catalog.antiquorum.swiss/en/lots/helbros-invincible-chronograph-lot-336-78?page=4

Edited:
 
Barking mad
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Tony C. Tony C.
The answer to your question is yes, but unfortunately he lives with his grandmother in a small town in Germany, and they have no internet.

😁

Seriously, though, this is a fairly good resource, though you may have seen it:

https://forgottenwatchbrands.wordpress.com/2016/01/02/helbros-watches/

I have seen a watch similar to yours, though I do not recall the world time bezel. Here is one sold on this forum, but with a different movement:

https://omegaforums.net/threads/helbros-invincible-skin-diver-manual-wind-serviced.130155/

and an Invincible chronograph:

https://catalog.antiquorum.swiss/en/lots/helbros-invincible-chronograph-lot-336-78?page=4
Thanks for that, I hadn't found the forgotten watch brands resource. Will give it a read.

I googled world time bezels for all watches trying to identify the bezel but no luck. I am sure it is for a diver as it has the minute indices in ten minute intervals around the bezel
 
w154
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Doesn’t it look there’s a gap between the bezel and the case ? Normally an original bezel would push all the way down to contact the case, wouldn’t it ?
 
Barking mad
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It looks like a gap but I think it is because that portion of the bezel is black.
IMG_0183.jpeg IMG_0184.jpeg
 
w154
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Yeah that’s flush. It was this pic that looked like a clear gap.

3A650075-8642-44D3-91C7-558A7282EF75.jpeg
 
Barking mad
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I have always doubted the bezel but haven't been able to find any information to prove or disprove. Also struggling to find other non date versions. I firmly believe the watch minus the bezel is legit but trying to confirm anything is proving to be difficult.😕
 
janice&fred
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My guess is the bezel is original. For some strange reason these vintage skin divers sometimes had world time bezels. The Philippine islands are full of them. I suppose knowing the time in Cairo might be of interest to one while snorkeling in Subic. 😁
 
Barking mad
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I agree, the bezel seems to fit too well to be a bodge and it does have the minute indices around the perimeter. I am guessing that no one has a pic of the bezel and watch separated?
@Scarecrow Boat you don't happen to have pics from when you were playing with yours do you?
Cheers
 
Canuck
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Your Helbros is fitted with a Font 72 movement. This movement was produced in the millions in the era of your watch. Very popular, rugged, easily repaired, popular, and found behind the dials of countless brand names. Also, often copied by makers in Japan.

E3D3ED70-2117-4E17-847E-AF0759F4C1C5.jpeg


I have included an image of a Japanese copy of the Font 72 as often found in inexpensive brands such as Caravelle, Arday, and countless others.

19439B9F-016B-4623-A6FF-9D779032B447.jpeg


In other words, very generic.
 
redpcar
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If it's a common case size and the bezel was knocked off or damaged, it could have easily been replaced from a watchmaker's stash. No way of knowing. Enjoy it as it is. Great looking watch.
 
Scarecrow Boat
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I wish I had more pictures showing the underside of the bezel, but I have a few showing the case with the bezel off when I wet sanded the crystal.

IMG_6867.JPG IMG_6864.JPG IMG_6863.JPG IMG_6862.JPG




The bezel is friction fit to the case and both are held together via a split octagonally shaped wire spring. I don't have a picture of the underside of the bezel, but the bezel has a grove for the spring to fit into. I zoomed in on this image below as it shows it best- the case has an angled lip around the crystal (Blue drawn bracket) that creates a channel (red arrow) for the octagonally shaped spring to fit into when the bezel and case are properly paired together. I should have drawn the red arrow closer to the lip but the channel is the dark shadow under the lip...

IMG_6866.jpg




Looking at this image of yours, the bezel isn't seated properly, which is likely why it isn't rotating for you. These bezels should be tight and sometimes take quite a bit of force to seat it 100%- You are pressing a smaller octagon (held in place inside the bezel) around a larger circle (angled lip of the case) until it clicks together and the spring is in both channels simultaneously. My Nivada CASD bezel fits this same way and took what seemed like Herculean strength to seat it after I took it off. Luckily for me, my wife was nearby and made short work of it.
x1506235-53a4ed4574a76d44a4d98ffec8a0e7c7.jpg.pagespeed.ic.uGmk3xUvGG.jpg


Edited typos
Edited:
 
Barking mad
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Canuck Canuck
Your Helbros is fitted with a Font 72 movement. This movement was produced in the millions in the era of your watch. Very popular, rugged, easily repaired, popular, and found behind the dials of countless brand names. Also, often copied by makers in Japan.

E3D3ED70-2117-4E17-847E-AF0759F4C1C5.jpeg


I have included an image of a Japanese copy of the Font 72 as often found in inexpensive brands such as Caravelle, Arday, and countless others.

19439B9F-016B-4623-A6FF-9D779032B447.jpeg


In other words, very generic.
Thank you. Very much appreciated.
Cheers
 
Barking mad
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Scarecrow Boat Scarecrow Boat
I wish I had more pictures showing the underside of the bezel, but I have a few showing the case with the bezel off when I wet sanded the crystal.

IMG_6867.JPG IMG_6864.JPG IMG_6863.JPG IMG_6862.JPG




The bezel is friction fit to the case and both are held together via a split octagonally shaped wire spring. I don't have a picture of the underside of the bezel, but the bezel has a grove for the spring to fit into. I zoomed in on this image below as it shows it best- the case has an angled lip around the crystal (Blue drawn bracket) that creates a channel (red arrow) for the octagonally shaped spring to fit into with the bezel and case are properly paired together. I should have drawn the red arrow closer to the lip but the channel is the dark shadow under the lip...

IMG_6866.jpg




Looking at this image of yours, the bezel isn't seated properly, which is likely why it isn't rotating for you. These bezels should be tight and sometimes take quite a bit of force to seat it 100%. My Nivada CASD bezel fits this same way and took, what seemed like Herculean strength, strength to seat it after I took it off. Luckily for me, my wife was nearby and made short work of it.
x1506235-53a4ed4574a76d44a4d98ffec8a0e7c7.jpg.pagespeed.ic.uGmk3xUvGG.jpg
Brilliant, thank you.
Cheers
 
Barking mad
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I don't think that the crown is helping. If you look at the crown of @Scarecrow Boat it has a step to accommodate the bezel where this one does not.

IMG_0217.jpeg IMG_0218.jpeg
 
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