Input Requested: Ref. 2852/2853 SC 18K - "CHRONOMETRE" Dial & Family History

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It's quite simple.

Your watch is in overall poor condition. No collector or Omega enthusiast would realistically invest in it for anything more than the scrap value, because it isn't desirable as is. It's not a 'rare font' but a poor redial, not a particularly good condition case despite whatever you've heard or read. The only thing really going for it is the movement and the gold value, which means 'scrap and spare parts'.

You keep mentioning things like 'an Antoine Gerlach case really changes the conversation for me', case by the same guy who worked for Patek Philippe etc, i.e you seem more interested in hearing yourself speak than receiving actual advice from us. These things are totally irrelevant in this circumstance. It's an Omega, Omega's are quality timepieces, what separates it from being a well-functioning 18kt watch and a 18kt paperweight is the ~$200 movement inside. If you'd sought advice sooner, the advice would've been to scrap it as is as opposed to investing any further in servicing etc, which realistically does not drive the price up.

Whichever way you want to slice it now, I think you would be insanely lucky if someone offered you the full $ scrap weight + couple hundred for the movement. Try asking whichever experts you had that inspected it how much they'd pay for it. Tell them to put their money where their mouths are.

If you want to try having at it with further redials and polishing in an attempt to sell it above its true value to some poor sod, well no one here is going to be in favour of that.
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25g of 18K gold and a few low value spares. Best case scenario $2,750. You might find a mug who will pay more, but not here.
 
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You keep mentioning things like 'an Antoine Gerlach case really changes the conversation for me', case by the same guy who worked for Patek Philippe etc, i.e you seem more interested in hearing yourself speak than receiving actual advice from us. These things are totally irrelevant in this circumstance

Maybe I have spent too long using ChatGPT recently, but the responses by the OP sound very AI based…
 
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Maybe I have spent too long using ChatGPT recently, but the responses by the OP sound very AI based…
I think in many cases people talk to AI first then it suggests checking here.

The specific case maker really isn’t a factor at all, it’s akin to saying a BMW has Bosch coil packs just like a Bugatti Chiron and suggesting it increases the value. It’s a Swiss Omega case in gold and that’s the relevant info.

It’s also worth being aware that Omega was not a small watch maker in this time period, the Constellation was one of the most mass produced quality automatic chronometers of the era.

It was like the Apple iPhone of its time, an extremely accurate wristwatch that ran without winding. Omega made millions of watches in that period, and many were gold as it wasn’t that pricey compared to steel in those days.

They performed extremely well, lasted decades, and were often looked after, and coupled with a very durable design they’re still great daily wearers today. It’s not a rare bird in that condition as a result, just parts and gold, although the family memories are a factor too.
 
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I realize that your uncle may be regretting spending the money to service the watch, since he is now being told that the value is based on parts. But it's a sunk cost and he can't get the money back. If he can document the service, perhaps that will make the movement more attractive to a collector. But as I mentioned, the rotor rub is apparent, and unless that was addressed with replacement parts (with documentation), the movement will probably be bought for parts.

IMO, it would be a mistake to compound the previous error by spending even more money trying to restore a watch whose collectible value can't be regained. Polishing and repainting the dial won't add any value. The case is already polished too much, and the dial is worthless. I know it may be hard to believe, but many of the people commenting on this thread have extensive first-hand experience, and their advice is much more valuable and accurate than AI-based research. Believe me, it does not give collectors any joy to discuss scrapping a Constellation, but it is a sign of the poor condition of the watch that people are not bothered by the idea. Usually members would be begging you NOT to do it.

If you could get the amount that @cristos71 mentioned, I think you should take it and run. Your uncle may do best by disassembling and selling the case, movement, and hands separately. That way a gold buyer will be able to pay top dollar, and people looking for hands or a movement will be able to buy exactly what they want.

When selling the case, remember, the scrap value of the case is not the full 18k spot price, because the buyer needs to make a profit. Typically a good gold buyer will give 80-85% of spot. But if you have access to a refinery, you can probably do better.

[Edit: I was curious about the JP Morgan claim. If your uncle believes that gold will be $6300 by the end of the year, then by all means he should hold the watch because that would be an excellent return. I'm sure someone is making that projection, but it's not JP Morgan, their actual projection is $5,055. Maybe this information also came from an AI summary.]

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I appreciate the clear words from everyone. I think the disconnect is that my uncle isn't looking for a "Purist Collector"—he knows the dial was refreshed; he's the one who had it done so he could actually read the time on a clean face.

What’s interesting is the data. The watch just hit 36 hours with 0.0s deviation. While I understand the movement might only be worth a few hundred dollars to a parts-seeker, his ad for the watch has already received over 1820 views.

It seems there is a large group of people who value an 18k Gerlach-cased chronometer that actually performs like a modern watch, even if it has a "repainted door." To a guy who wants a gold Omega to wear and trust, the difference between "scrap plus parts" and a "precision instrument" seems to be a lot more than $100.

I really appreciate the input you all provided on the case maker and movement; that’s exactly the info I needed for my uncle. This has been great info and it will help him make a more informed decision. He's not needing the money, and he feels with the forecast by JP Morgan on gold reaching $6,300/oz by year-end, it's a good gamble to hold and enjoy it, even if it's not for purists. Thanks again for the help!
 
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I had to laugh at the AI theories! I’ll take it as a backhanded compliment on my research. As a technologist and solution director who has worked on the development of these systems, my natural tendency toward data-backed logic and structured evidence can probably feel like Ai to those used to more emotional debates.

I am definitely a newcomer here, but I’m focused on the metrics I can actually measure. Regarding the watch, we aren't scrapping it for gold yet. My uncle is currently testing the market with it and is following the more aggressive gold Supercycle forecasts for year-end. Dan, I appreciate the $5,055 info, but he’s looking at the updated $6,300 forecast J.P. Morgan released in February. Whether it hits $5k or $6k, he's fine with waiting to see what happens rather than selling for scrap today.

The watch just hit 39 hours with 0.0s deviation. Seeing a watch this old performing like that is impressive to me, and with over 1,800 views on his test ad, there seems to be an audience for a Gerlach-cased piece that runs this well. I really appreciate the responses you all provided - it’s been genuinely educational and will help him make a more informed decision moving forward. Thanks again.
 
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Oh boy, I've been collecting Constellations for about 20 years and honestly I've never heard the word Gerlach before today.....🤔....I certainly won't forget it now!
 
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Oh boy, I've been collecting Constellations for about 20 years and honestly I've never heard the word Gerlach before today.....🤔....I certainly won't forget it now!
Me neither! - but we have heard it enough times now to last us for a while.

and the best bit is - guess what - I checked and my 14382 deluxe Constellation also has a Gerlach case and I feel so blessed now.....
 
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Oh boy, I've been collecting Constellations for about 20 years and honestly I've never heard the word Gerlach before today.....🤔....I certainly won't forget it now!
I only collect cases made by Rainer Unsinn of CB, his work is pure Unsinn
 
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The watch just hit 39 hours with 0.0s deviation. Seeing a watch this old performing like that is impressive to me, and with over 1,800 views on his test ad, there seems to be an audience for a Gerlach-cased piece that runs this well.
There seems to be an audience for a vintage watch with an original movement that runs well. Trust me, no one cares who made the case. I’ve been on this forum since it started and this thread has the most posts about a watch case manufacturer ever.

If I was selling a Fiat, would I say that the manufacturer of the headlights is the same company that makes headlights for Ferrari?

Watch cases are generally designed by a manufacturer who then takes bid from contractors to make cases to their specifications. Usually, the lowest bid wins the contract. So do you want to advertise that this company was the low bidder?

The whole thing sounds ridiculous to me. BTW, there may have been 1,800 page views, but how many offers?
gatorcpa
 
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There seems to be an audience for a vintage watch with an original movement that runs well. Trust me, no one cares who made the case. I’ve been on this forum since it started and this thread has the most posts about a watch case manufacturer ever.

If I was selling a Fiat, would I say that the manufacturer of the headlights is the same company that makes headlights for Ferrari?

Watch cases are generally designed by a manufacturer who then takes bid from contractors to make cases to their specifications. Usually, the lowest bid wins the contract. So do you want to advertise that this company was the low bidder?

The whole thing sounds ridiculous to me. BTW, there may have been 1,800 page views, but how many offers?
gatorcpa
I made one at $2,000, well you have to make a buck don't you?

ps I didn't really 😀
 
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The whole thing sounds ridiculous to me. BTW, there may have been 1,800 page views, but how many offers?

Yep, a gold 2852 is a desirable watch, and it's going to get attention. But 1,800 views without a sale is a message. When "the uncle" puts the right price on the watch, it will sell.
 
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I had to laugh at the AI theories! I’ll take it as a backhanded compliment on my research. As a technologist and solution director who has worked on the development of these systems, my natural tendency toward data-backed logic and structured evidence can probably feel like Ai to those used to more emotional debates.

I am definitely a newcomer here, but I’m focused on the metrics I can actually measure. Regarding the watch, we aren't scrapping it for gold yet. My uncle is currently testing the market with it and is following the more aggressive gold Supercycle forecasts for year-end. Dan, I appreciate the $5,055 info, but he’s looking at the updated $6,300 forecast J.P. Morgan released in February. Whether it hits $5k or $6k, he's fine with waiting to see what happens rather than selling for scrap today.

The watch just hit 39 hours with 0.0s deviation. Seeing a watch this old performing like that is impressive to me, and with over 1,800 views on his test ad, there seems to be an audience for a Gerlach-cased piece that runs this well. I really appreciate the responses you all provided - it’s been genuinely educational and will help him make a more informed decision moving forward. Thanks again.

For someone who prides themselves on data-backed logic and structured evidence, you've done a remarkable job of dismissing every data point that doesn't suit you. That's not logic, that's confirmation bias with extra steps. You came to an Omega enthusiast forum seeking advice, yet argued against basically every valuation given.

The Gerlach case story is nothing more than a story, it doesn't do anything for its actual value. It's certainly added some meme factor to our forums though!

The 1,800+ views likely means people clicked because it's an Omega listing. It says nothing about demand for this specific case (which we know there isn't any - but you are insistent on fabricating value here), nevertheless interest and offers are very different things. Again, I am very confident that any of the experts you consulted would not offer you even scrap price plus movement.

'Seeing a watch this old performing like that is impressive to me'
As it should, and we've all factored in the well-running movement into our estimates.

All the data points to this watch's true worth being scrap gold value and spare parts, nothing more. You clearly don't like that answer, but the market price is what it is, and it's been stated numerous times. Your uncle is free to wait on gold forecasts, I'm doing that myself on some of my gold, it makes no difference in this case because holding onto it is the same as holding onto gold. We are all saying that its value as a watch is basically 1:1 with its gold value, then perhaps a bit for the movement if you happened to have an interested watchmaker in the spare parts.

The honest and harsh truth is that if you sold it for more than scrap + movement, it'll be because you've fabricated value, not because of structured evidence or a data-backed approach.
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For someone who prides themselves on data-backed logic and structured evidence, you've done a remarkable job of dismissing every data point that doesn't suit you. That's not logic, that's confirmation bias with extra steps. You came to an Omega enthusiast forum seeking advice, yet argued against basically every valuation given.

The Gerlach case story is nothing more than a story, it doesn't do anything for its actual value. It's certainly added some meme factor to our forums though!

The 1,800+ views likely means people clicked because it's an Omega listing. It says nothing about demand for this specific case (which we know there isn't any - but you are insistent on fabricating value here), nevertheless interest and offers are very different things. Again, I am very confident that any of the experts you consulted would not offer you even scrap price plus movement.

'Seeing a watch this old performing like that is impressive to me'
As it should, and we've all factored in the well-running movement into our estimates.

All the data points to this watch's true worth being scrap gold value and spare parts, nothing more. You clearly don't like that answer, but the market price is what it is, and it's been stated numerous times. Your uncle is free to wait on gold forecasts, I'm doing that myself on some of my gold, it makes no difference in this case because holding onto it is the same as holding onto gold. We are all saying that its value as a watch is basically 1:1 with its gold value, then perhaps a bit for the movement if you happened to have an interested watchmaker in the spare parts.

The honest and harsh truth is that if you sold it for more than scrap + movement, it'll be because you've fabricated value, not because of structured evidence or a data-backed approach.
I think there’s a disconnect and I take responsibility for my part of it. I value your knowledge, which is why I came here to verify technical facts (like the specs, hallmark and accuracy), not to try to sell it here. I wasn't looking for a plan of action or a valuation. To me, those are two different things: I wanted to make sure my data was right so I could make an informed decision, not ask the community to make the decision for me. I'm not saying you're wrong about the valuation, your inputs are just one of a much larger calculation for us. I appreciate the technical insights provided and it has helped us make the decision which I thank you all for helping us get to it: we will have it polished and restored and look to sell it, either now or later when gold goes up. Thanks again!
 
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I appreciate the technical insights provided and it has helped us make the decision which I thank you all for helping us get to it: we will have it polished and restored and look to sell it, either now or later when gold goes up.
Let me give it one last try. If you want to keep the watch, spend the money and enjoy it.

The reason the Omega collector community frowns on redials is that there is no one who has all the correct dies and techniques to reproduce vintage dials as they looked when new.

There are techniques than can reproduce the sharp edges of the case and bezel, but these will be quite expensive, as the craftsman may need to add some gold to the case.

If you want to sell this watch, IMO any money spent on further restoration will be wasted. If a new owner wants it restored to keep, then they will spend the money to do the restoration their way, which may not be the same as your way.

Therefore, it is highly unlikely someone else will pay for your decision. Sell it to them as is and let them make the investment or part it out.

I’ve said my piece. Now it’s time for me to exit this thread.
gatorcpa
 
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I think there’s a disconnect and I take responsibility for my part of it. I value your knowledge, which is why I came here to verify technical facts (like the specs, hallmark and accuracy), not to try to sell it here. I wasn't looking for a plan of action or a valuation. To me, those are two different things: I wanted to make sure my data was right so I could make an informed decision, not ask the community to make the decision for me. I'm not saying you're wrong about the valuation, your inputs are just one of a much larger calculation for us. I appreciate the technical insights provided and it has helped us make the decision which I thank you all for helping us get to it: we will have it polished and restored and look to sell it, either now or later when gold goes up. Thanks again!

Eh, I believe you believe what you’re saying to be true. Whatever calculation you’re making is one we are all well versed in, hence the conclusion that you cannot possibly be correct that you’ll be better off going the route you proposed, not without pawning the watch off onto some unknowing person (likely someone who isn’t detailed/discerning like you seem to be). You’ve been given all the facts surrounding the watch and vintage Omegas, what you choose to do is of course up to you.

Unfortunately I can’t wish you success on this journey, because further redialing and polishing in an attempt to make more money is just horror on many levels, except of course the seller hoping to a few extra bucks. Waiting out for potential rises in gold value is something I can’t imagine anyone being against, though we aren’t your financial advisers.

Nothing further to add from me 👋🏼.
 
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Let me give it one last try. If you want to keep the watch, spend the money and enjoy it.

The reason the Omega collector community frowns on redials is that there is no one who has all the correct dies and techniques to reproduce vintage dials as they looked when new.

There are techniques than can reproduce the sharp edges of the case and bezel, but these will be quite expensive, as the craftsman may need to add some gold to the case.

If you want to sell this watch, IMO any money spent on further restoration will be wasted. If a new owner wants it restored to keep, then they will spend the money to do the restoration their way, which may not be the same as your way.

Therefore, it is highly unlikely someone else will pay for your decision. Sell it to them as is and let them make the investment or part it out.

I’ve said my piece. Now it’s time for me to exit this thread.
gatorcpa
100% Correct.

I link to this video a lot as it comes up so often.

 
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I think there’s a disconnect and I take responsibility for my part of it. I value your knowledge, which is why I came here to verify technical facts (like the specs, hallmark and accuracy), not to try to sell it here. I wasn't looking for a plan of action or a valuation. To me, those are two different things: I wanted to make sure my data was right so I could make an informed decision, not ask the community to make the decision for me. I'm not saying you're wrong about the valuation, your inputs are just one of a much larger calculation for us. I appreciate the technical insights provided and it has helped us make the decision which I thank you all for helping us get to it: we will have it polished and restored and look to sell it, either now or later when gold goes up. Thanks again!
The members of this forum have been extremely polite and patient trying to help you, and your obstinacy is frankly remarkable.

Your watch has a value on the open market and for watches like this that market is driven by collectors. You are speaking to the potential market for you watch but you aren’t listening! With the price of gold as it is, there really aren’t casual, non-discerning buyers just looking for an attractive, functioning restored and polished vintage watch. If you do go this route, the only path to a sale at a price worth the investment in restoration is through deceptive language and misrepresenting the watch as in “like new” condition with a special case and remarkable movement, which is clearly what you intend.

It should be made clear to you: this is a not an ethical sales practice and is worthy of the scorn you are receiving.

Your two most salient data points are: the case was made by the manufacturer of cases for this watch, and a very good, reliable movement is running well after a service. Neither of these things are remotely special.

It’s not impossible that you find a credulous rube to buy the watch, but the most likely outcome is that you and your uncle are the credulous rubes have wasted your money. I hope the latter is the case

My two cents, but perhaps worth checking the Gerlach collector forums for a second opinion.