Following a remark from someone in the Omega sub-section of a French watch forum (FAM) who was wondering why Omega never thought of reissuing the now famous ref. 376.0822 Speedmaster Automatic, a.k.a. the Holy Grail, I thought it was an interesting topic to discuss further and started a thread about it. And I am starting a similar topic here to give this debate a little bit more international exposure to find out what fellow enthusiasts think. So you'll find below the translation of my original post:

Let's close our eyes and try to picture what such a scenario might look like. Is it only conceivable? We're talking about a watch that relatively few people are aware of, as only 2,000 examples were produced in the course of a single year (1987), and that includes the 200 that were sold as two-tone limited edition on the Italian market a year later. The fact that it bombed on the market, at a time people's tastes were more geared towards thinner and smaller designs, is possibly one of the key elements that lead Omega to release the smaller "Reduced" model just a year later.

Until a few collectors, and most prominently among them the late and much-missed Chuck Maddox, started attracting attention towards this particular model at the start of the aughts, it was a forgotten chronograph that one could easily buy for cheaper than a pre-owned Moonwatch at the time. With its late exposure under the limelights, at a time consumer tastes favored larger watches, this chronograph progressively reached cult status and its price took off towards summits it is yet to fall from today. It is to be remembered that its "Grail" moniker was born out of Chuck Maddox's mild desperation at tracking one down, after declining an opportunity to acquire one a few years previously. The "Holyness" came much later, complementing a nickname that was mostly ironic coming from Chuck. But the myth was in march, and even Omega nowadays has no qualms about using the Holy Grail designation for this model.

So, 35 years after its fleeting appearance on the market, is this chronograph able to meet the commercial success that eluded it the first time? Before we try to answer this question, let's first consider if such a rebirth is actually possible from a technical standpoint.

The Holy Grail was the very last of Omega's chronographs to be powered by the brand's calibre 1045 (born Lemania 5100) which first appeared in 1974 with the Speedmaster "Mark 4.5" ref. 176.0012, taking over from the actual Mark IV. And while other watch companies still produced watches with this movement until the middle of the first decade of the current century, it was nevertheless unceremoniously put to death by Swatch Group in 2003/2004. The official reason offered then was that the production line was obsolete, and would require massive investment for an overhaul, even though just a few years earlier Swatch had doubled overnight the price of the Lemania 5100 for its customers. I remember on that topic a memorable conversation I once had with Dieter Delecate, CEO of German watch brand Tutima, during the 2005 edition of Baselworld. He was genuinely furious because while he had enough movements to see the end of his contractual obligations with the German Bundeswehr regarding the issued watches he had delivered, this decision to discontinue the calibre forced him to retire its famous Military Chronograph, one of the company's best sellers. According to him the explanation provided by Swatch was a lie, and he therefore cast serious doubt on the "tool obsolescence" official line. And he was proven right only 4 years later when ETA's calibre C01.211 was released. This "new" calibre was merely a 21,600 bph version of the Lemania 5100 (in essence a Lemania 5012) with a cheap synthetic escapement, but more importantly emasculated (some may remain more polite and say "decontented") because deprived of its chrono central minute counter, a defining feature of the Lemania movements. Given that ETA's new product was meant to be used in cheap entry-level chronographs from Tissot and Swatch, I believe it convincingly debunks the idea that the Lemania 5100 had become too costly to manufacture, let alone couldn't be produced anymore.

So I don't think that is much of stretch to think that given the proper will, Omega could very well source newly made calibre 1045 movements. Also, the original Holy Grail having a steel back, there is no reason for a hypothetical reissue to be any different, making the rather mediocre esthetics of the Lemania 5100 a non-issue. But there is still one major hurdle: Omega has now fully moved towards using on almost all its watches the co-axial escapement, a technical advance that was absent on the old calibre 1045. Thankfully, a key character is coming to the rescue, and it's no less than the late Georges Daniels, the actual creator of the co-axial technology used today by Omega. It happens that one of his first prototypes was installed on a personal watch of his: a ref. 176.0012 Speedmaster Automatic. And as was mentioned earlier, this watch is powered by the same calibre 1045 that was later found in the Holy Grail.

As we've seen above, there doesn't seem to be any major technical hurdle that may prevent the now famous Holy Grail to be ever reissued. But, if as any enthusiast I get very excited at the mere suggestion, I unfortunately don't believe it will ever happen. There are two main reasons for my skepticism. The first one, and probably the most important one, is that while we've seen the prices for the original shoot skywards over the last decade, it remains a model whose celebrity is pretty niche. Don't forget that we're only talking about 2,000 examples, with a share of these now lost forever. If informed aficionados know this watch, it's another matter when it comes to the general public. This watch never went to space, it was not worn by some actor or other celebrities, so its status as a cult watch is only true with a tiny fringe of enthusiasts like us. Probably not large enough to justify another trial on the market, even if Omega has not too long ago reissued the little known Lemania-powered Bullhead. But then comes my second reason for doubting: it would come at a moment when the size pendulum seems to be swinging back towards smaller watches. You only have to read articles on sites like Fratello or Hodinkee to find out that more and more people seem to be attracted to smaller watches with more restrained dimensions. Beyond our own opinions, the very positive market response to Omega's FOIS Speedmaster is also proof of that.

Let me be crystal clear: I would love Omega to prove me wrong. But I sadly don't think that we'll ever see an updated and slightly modernized Holy Grail ever see the light of day, even though I would gladly crawl naked over broken glass to get one. Like most collectors, I'm a romantic at heart, but I also can be a pragmatic and see how risky embarking on a reissue of this watch would be for Omega. What they certainly don't want to reissue is the flop they got with the first one.

And that is genuinely too bad, because a co-axial and antimagnetic calibre 1045 would kick serious ass, wouldn't it?

 

I think that one of the issues with a Holy Grail re-edition using even a modified 1045 would be the plastic parts. While I personally take no issue with well-engineered plastic components in a movement, the existence of the Delrin brake on the caliber 1861 already caused a lot of whining and pretentious virtue-signaling from watch collectors. For a watch that will retail at probably $6k+ to have plastic parts in the movement, I can only imagine how much of a fuss people will make. There would also be the issue that the stripped-down version of the 1045 is being used by Tissot. Even though this is a lauded movement, and is one of the very few automatic chronographs to have been regularly used by armed forces around the world, Omega's going to get loads of criticism for using something that a lower-end brand sells for much less.

 

That is indeed a valid concern, which is why Omega wouldn't get away with not upgrading the movement with the latest technologies (co-axial escapement) and certification (METAS). Given that the original Lemania 5100 was sold in certified chronometer guise by two brands (Eberhard with COSC, and Alain Silberstein with CETEHOR), this probably wouldn't be a technical hurdle.

But as you correctly point out, perceptions certainly would with some people.

 

Welcome, Pascal - sort of!

Part of me wishes you had waited until this August to post, so that it would have been an exact 10 years between your joining and making first post

So long as we’re changing the movement, could the 24hr indicator please double as an adjustable GMT home time

 

Why would they bother? As you suggest, Swatch use a descendant of the 5100 chrono movement in low end Tissot pieces and it is still full of plastic AFAIK. Since the so called grail Omega have used several much more advanced full auto chronometer rated chronograph movements with date, in some cases complete with coaxial escapments, free sprung balances etc so it strikes me as a retrograde step to reintroduce something so off the technological pace (and of course lacking in any Space connection).

 

Any with a 24hr indicator? That’s the draw for me.

Because of that 24hr indicator, was it not an infrequently sought after model for astronauts (perhaps mostly cosmonautes)?

I think I remember reading that Omega had configured the watch in this way thinking it would be a better watch for space, but got not uptake by NASA

 

I think there is a 7750 variant with a 24 hour indicator. The triple Speedmaster date had one.

 

Yes, the models with an Omega 1151 have this. The 24 hour indicator is not independently adjustable.

 

Notwithstanding the fact that, as shown in the link in my original post, the calibre 1045 is no stranger to the co-axial escapement as it served as a basis for one of its first prototypes, it's really the bolded bit that I would like to dispute.

As a matter of fact, the calibre 1045 does have a pretty strong space connection. First of all, within the Alaska III project, two other watches were offered for space certification alongside the 861 Speedmaster Professional, and they both passed. One of them was an automatic chronograph ref. 110003 (with a case provided with the US based Star Watch Company to bypass the "Buy America" act) and it was powered, you guessed it, by a calibre 1045. Several of these prototypes have popped up in auctions over the last few years, and one is exhibited at the Omega Museum in Bienne.


Photo credit: Sotheby's

But if that's not enough, the Lemania 5100 travelled to space on many occasions, first with German astronauts Reinhard Furrer and Klaus-Dietrich Flade wearing respectively a Sinn 140B S (with a Lemania 5012) and a Sinn 142. But more importantly, the Russians wore it as original equipment on their Fortis Official Cosmonauts chronographs for several years when they had a contract with the Swiss brand.



So yes, no calibre 1045 actually made it to space in an Omega, but it does have enough credentials to prevent it from being dismissed as completely disconnected from space exploration.

 

https://www.damaskowatchtechnology.com/Damasko-DC86-Chronograph-Watch

 

Huh?

Damasko is not alone trying to emulate the chrono central minute display. Both Sinn and Tutima do it as well for some of their models. But the existence of such ersatz is not what is being discussed in this thread. The question is wether the real deal may one day do a final victory lap, hopefully in an Omega.

 

I think it’s very unlikely that Omega would make a 5100 based movement. There is simply no incentive for them to do this. The 5100 can be described as industrial if we are being very kind, and Omega is not currently trending in that sort of direction with their movements. They are heading in the complete opposite direction, so putting out a movement that is full of plastic, even if you add a co-axial escapement and tart it up a bit, just doesn’t fit with what they are doing currently.

 

Get more actively involved in this forum and you might realize that starting a thread in no way anoints one to dictate subsequent contributions. Thread drift is what makes this forum enjoyable

 

Holy shit! I actually agree with you! WTF!

 

I'm not attempting to "dictate" anything. I'm just trying to keep the thread on topic. I might very well fail in my efforts, but you can't fault me for trying...

And yes, I realize that I'm a "newbie" on this forum. A very opinionated one, mind you!

 

I don't know if that is a slight or a compliment. Either way, it is true.
I belong to many different forums. This forum, by far!, is the most intelligent group of individuals I associate with. I only wish it were a group of friends I could have a beer with.

 

And what are they currently doing?

Their recent overhaul of calibre 1861 into 3861 doesn't erase the fact that this movement was born out of a desire to simplify and make more robust and economical the calibre 321 which started it all. Sure, Omega now offers (much to my surprise I admit) a reborn 321, but it's not meant to be produced in large numbers.

I get the point, and actually share the sentiment to an extent, that the Lemania 5100 is, despite its many technical subtleties (vertical clutch, innovative cam wheel, use of self-lubricating synthetic materials) is a relic of a bygone era when watches were actually meant to measure time and work reliably under duress. With Omega actively hunting on Rolex playground, such a ugly duckling may well not be able to make the cut even in a "tarted up" version. And yet, it is very much part of Omega's history, and deserves fully to be acknowledged as such.

 

Having corresponded with Chuck for several years before his premature passing in 2008, I'm pretty sure he would have been intrigued by the Dark Side of the Moon edition. He would also have been happy about the fact that the venerable calibre 861 lived on in its modern 3861 incarnation, as we had shared some concern that Omega might eventually try to retire it and replace it with the calibre 3201 that made a brief apparition on the Speedmaster 50th Anniversary limited editions.

One thing I will tell you for sure is that he would have been even more supportive than I am about a calibre 1045 resurrection. We definitely shared a passion for that movement, that he liked to describe as a Willis Jeep of the chronograph world.

 

Very obviously moving up market. A movement full of plastic parts is very much out of place currently, no matter what terms you want to apply to those materials.

There’s a small segment of collectors who love these movements, but the reality is they are very far from being luxurious in any way.