Geneva Results Discussion November 2021

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Auction prices are just one measure of Speedmaster health or vintage watch health in general. And I seriously doubt auction results are the strongest indicator, they can be very misleading imo. A bidder, or even a handful of bidders willing to pay an obscene amount for a 2915 does not imply a newfound strength for speedmasters, not even for the 2915. We need to focus on the bigger picture, and how trends evolve over time. We need to look at the day to day activities of us regular collectors, and not just at the behavior of the 1%ers.

So, we should all take a deep breath. The speedmaster (and vintage watch market as a whole) market is neither booming nor busting. There is lots of scatter, just like there is now in many financial and other markets. It is unsettling, but no reason to either sulk or rejoice too much.

Agree, we can debate ad nauseam what effect this auction has on our own little corner of the world. But at the very least, when something like this 2915 brings such an obscene hammer price, the buzz will spill over into the popular press. And then interest in Speedmasters has got to increase, because both the well-heeled, and the medium well-heeled don’t want to be left behind. Look at the Rolex Newman market: after the crazy price one bought years ago, the models just under them jumped in value. So prices in all the Speedmaster collectible reference tiers could take a bump up. Great if you’ve already got a stash, not so good if not.
 
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I think the thing to remember is that if you are looking for an interesting vintage watch and you wish to spend between $4,000 and $5000 (or $10,000) you can still buy vintage Speedmaster that will give you pleasure and return plenty of enjoyment for the money.

Most people have always failed to appreciate the value difference between something at the very top of the desirability pyramid and something that is a 20% lower. The value of something at the very top it’s always substantially more than something nearly as good.

sometimes people make mistakes. Sometimes two people make mistakes. Sometimes hysteria infects a group.

did someone make a mistake on the speedmaster for 3.5m? I don’t know. It’s out of my league and it would take me away from my primary purpose with which is to have fun, not make money to put food on my table.

I got interested in speedmasters because of the challenge in finding an attractive vintage watch for a price I could afford to play with, and also feel comfortable transacting with others. I don’t have a problem meeting someone for a $5,000 exchange, and meeting a fellow hunter to discuss.

It is more of a challenge for me to find an interesting speedmaster at an affordable price, with a quirky characteristic perhaps, than going out with a huge wad of cash and buying a huge watch at auction. (which isn’t an option for me but I can dream)

So for me, my enjoyment of this hobby continues. I still look for Speedmasters, and I buy one or two. Sometimes I get them up and running and then decide if I sell on, or at other times I swap them into the keeper box, and sell the previous one it knocked out. I learned a while back I cannot keep them all, and continue to have the resources to hunt for more.

I don’t care if the market goes up or down, as long a I can still find them. We could go off on how bad eBay is now, as that has affected my enjoyment of this hobby more than any other single influence.

here is a photo. Can’t have a thread without photos





 
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here is a photo. Can’t have a thread without photos


HOLY COW! $14M worth of watches! 😉

Love the straps too. Feel for you though. How do you pick what to wear each day? Close your eyes and grab one would work.

(Thanks for the interesting discussion, as always.)
 
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here is a photo. Can’t have a thread without photos


What straps are you using? As I always look for a new strap, these intrigue me!
 
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What straps are you using? As I always look for a new strap, these intrigue me!
Straps are all hand made, using salvage leather I find. (I do not make them, I tried that and I am useless)
 
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Sothebys just sold this for USD $ 359,000 incl premium.

It had a detailed Omega report, and in that report it states the bezel is service and the hands re lumed.
It has a round O dial, with very little to say in terms of attraction. Dirty lume and the dial just doesnt sing to me.
ge2104-bzghw-1.jpg

I find this price harder to understand than the Phillips result, as this watch has very little appeal to it.

Compare the AQ 2915 (below) for USD 62,800:

264.jpg

That seems to be a bargain next to the Sothebys result. It also has a service bezel, (or a repro, doesnt really matter) and it also has an oval O dial, with more character, and a period bracelet, possibly with end links.
 
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Sterling Vault Auctioneers have a 2915 up for auction on the 25th Nov. It’s minus a bezel and has a few other issues so will be interesting to see what this goes for compared to Sotheby’s and AQ.

 
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Compare the AQ 2915 (below) for USD 62,800:

264.jpg

That seems to be a bargain next to the Sothebys result. It also has a service bezel, (or a repro, doesnt really matter) and it also has an oval O dial, with more character, and a period bracelet, possibly with end links.

This case looks better than the Phillips. The lume color is beautiful.

Are original bezels that much of a premium? The brown dial?

This is really hard to figure out.
 
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I read in an article that Philips spoke to their select clients before the auction and advised them the 2915 was a particularly attractive example. It looks like that then descended into a who can piss the furthest contest on the day as hysteria overcame a handful of billionaires trying to outdo each other. I find it hard to believe there isn’t a handful of buyers remorse the next day, regardless of who the winner was and whether they have paid up or not
 
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I read in an article that Philips spoke to their select clients before the auction and advised them the 2915 was a particularly attractive example. It looks like that then descended into a who can piss the furthest contest on the day as hysteria overcame a handful of billionaires trying to outdo each other. I find it hard to believe there isn’t a handful of buyers remorse the next day, regardless of who the winner was and whether they have paid up or not

well I doubt any billionaire would lose any sleep over this purchase. They probably spent that on wine this month.
 
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Sothebys just sold this for USD $ 359,000 incl premium.

It had a detailed Omega report, and in that report it states the bezel is service and the hands re lumed.
It has a round O dial, with very little to say in terms of attraction. Dirty lume and the dial just doesnt sing to me.
ge2104-bzghw-1.jpg

Be interesting to know who the buyer is, as mentioned before if the Chinese are moving into Speedmasters then these crazy prices will probably filter down through the references over time..
 
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Be interesting to know who the buyer is, as mentioned before if the Chinese are moving into Speedmasters then these crazy prices will probably filter down through the references over time..

If Omega had to choose between selling to the USA or China, they wouldn't hesitate to choose China.
 
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If Omega had to choose between selling to the USA or China, they wouldn't hesitate to choose China.
What do you mean?
Omega didn’t own the watch and were not selling it either.
 
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What do you mean?
Omega didn’t own the watch and were not selling it either.

Just that China is a large, knowledgeable market already.

Sorry, my comment was a bit obscure 😟.
 
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Sterling Vault Auctioneers have a 2915 up for auction on the 25th Nov. It’s minus a bezel and has a few other issues so will be interesting to see what this goes for compared to Sotheby’s and AQ.

Hello

What year this is Speedmatser?
Thanks
izi
 
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Sterling Vault Auctioneers have a 2915 up for auction on the 25th Nov. It’s minus a bezel and has a few other issues so will be interesting to see what this goes for compared to Sotheby’s and AQ.


This one looks lovely, apart from the bezel and pin missing from the bracelet, cant find any other issues, more photos on the sale room and on their Instagram, interesting to see what this one goes for.
 
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CHF 2,550,000
USD 2,790,000

PLUS premium (which is on a sliding scale at this level need to work it out) but estimate usd $3.4m
Bidders from Oman, HK, Texas and more

Fierce bidding from multiple bidders, sailing past high estimate CHF 120,000

worlds most expensive speedmaster



https://www.phillips.com/detail/omega/CH080221/53

Perezcope investigated this one;

https://perezcope.com/2023/04/09/tr...WVpz-lCTOsXZXoLeN70TFhR0JxKlyF5l1HV26g1rud8zM
 
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Excellent investigation by Perezcope!

The point with the fake certificate remembers me about the shameful Mil SM300 sold at the Antiquorum Omegamania auction in 2007.