Geneva Results Discussion November 2021

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Oh dear!
How will this work then? Will the buyer get a refund? I hear Phillips are already in trouble financially?
It kind of makes my brain hurt.
 
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$ 3 million for a partial project watch with one of the most expensive part (the bezel ) from a different model.

If I were the owner, I would be pissed beyond measure. Especially now that this watch is de facto unsalable for the future.
There are not exactly that many 2915-1 like this.
 
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Quite the story. I wonder how this plays out between the buyer and Phillips.
 
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That is fascinating. I know see why original component prices are so high. The whole $20k for a bezel thing has been blowing my mind but the stakes are high with these 29-5’s obviously. Oh to find a retired watchmaker’s drawer of discarded bits…
 
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That is fascinating. I know see why original component prices are so high. The whole $20k for a bezel thing has been blowing my mind but the stakes are high with these 29-5’s obviously. Oh to find a retired watchmaker’s drawer of discarded bits…

Try Biel . There is a Cache' of rare replaced Parts....
 
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Try Biel . There is a Cache' of rare replaced Parts....
The original motherlode. What a candy store that would be. Back to the high priced results. I often see listings with an extract but does anyone use the official authentication service? I know it’s expensive but surely that is a high quality service that would give a buyer peace of mind when bidding and drive prices higher?
 
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The other big takeaway is: provenance is everything, especially when you’re playing in the big leagues.
 
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Great article as usual, but he doesn't follow up on his introductory tease about the violent gypsy clan! What's the story there?

Nope. And whilst I really appreciate the research done, the sensational and accusatory tone is exaggerated a little too far. Examples aren’t just the violent gypsy clan mentioned, but also the simple fact that the watch under scrutiny here only came with an Extract of the Archives, according to Phillips. The author refers to that as a “Certificate of Authenticity issued by the Omega Heritage Department” which is quite something else as, unlike the EoA, a CoA would require inspection in Biel. In this case, all Omega did was acknowledging that the serial once left the factory in a 2915-1. Nothing less, certainly nothing more either.

To me, it doesn’t seem like Omega ever inspected the watch in hand, nor did they endorse it. Still, a fraudulent record sale is quite undesirable to Omega, but Omega’s active role insinuated by the author seems unfounded to me, except for bidding on the piece, perhaps.

Still, this article is an interesting read and testifies of serious research done. It just would have been better if it was more factually correct (and slightly less ‘tabloid’ to my taste).
Edited:
 
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Well well...
This isn't the first time for Mr Bacs to be involved in this type/sort of watches??

I do hope that he might be a bit more humble in the future and not so Hollywood-isch...?😉
 
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The most interesting part of the story (IMHO) is this:

My understanding is that the watch specialists at Phillips had ‘groomed’ a very wealthy collector from Mainland China known as ‘Ghost’ months in advance and once a certain price level was reached, the guy got into a bidding frenzy.

Wet dream of any art trader or auctioneer...
 
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Early Speedmasters are pretty rare. One of the reasons could be that since they were of such poor build quality, most people simple threw them away.

😕 Huh?
 
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😕 Huh?

Yeah, I wondered about that one too. Strange comment...
 
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To me this is the cancer in our hobby…

Edit : but thats a great relume. Not worth 3massif though…
Edited:
 
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Well well...
This isn't the first time for Mr Bacs to be involved in this type/sort of watches??

I do hope that he might be a bit more humble in the future and not so Hollywood-isch...?😉

That comment is ( searching for the right Word here...) without substance / an assumption / strange .... Aurel acts exactly like the buyers wants him to be. He fills a void. He is an actor. He creates trends. He is one of many reasons, that certain vintage watches reached stratospheric heights. Bad for us normal collectors. Good for the industry. I watched him since the mid 90's, when he was with different Auction houses and learned the ropes. Cosied up with the Rich and famous in Munich and elsewhere. Bidders often pay more as they wanted to , because they feel like belonging to the inner circle of a close knit society. So, he gives them what they want. And got a fortune out of it as well.
 
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Edit : but thats a great relume. Not worth 3massif though…

That struck me, too.

It appears the edge of the lume didn't change,only the color. How did they do that was one question.

The other question I had was whether it was a bad thing and if I would do it. The bad thing was the deception. But i gotta admit it was nicely done.
 
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That comment is ( searching for the right Word here...) without substance / an assumption / strange .... Aurel acts exactly like the buyers wants him to be. He fills a void. He is an actor. He creates trends. He is one of many reasons, that certain vintage watches reached stratospheric heights. Bad for us normal collectors. Good for the industry. I watched him since the mid 90's, when he was with different Auction houses and learned the ropes. Cosied up with the Rich and famous in Munich and elsewhere. Bidders often pay more as they wanted to , because they feel like belonging to the inner circle of a close knit society. So, he gives them what they want. And got a fortune out of it as well.

Are we still talking about watches, or art? Lichtenstein comes to mind, a blatant plagerist.
 
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Nope. And whilst I really appreciate the research done, the sensational and accusatory tone is exaggerated a little too far. Examples aren’t just the violent gypsy clan mentioned, but also the simple fact that the watch under scrutiny here only came with an Extract of the Archives, according to Phillips. The author refers to that as a “Certificate of Authenticity issued by the Omega Heritage Department” which is quite something else as, unlike the EoA, a CoA would require inspection in Biel. In this case, all Omega did was acknowledging that the serial once left the factory in a 2915-1. Nothing less, certainly nothing more either.

To me, it doesn’t seem like Omega ever inspected the watch in hand, nor did they endorse it. Still, a fraudulent record sale is quite undesirable to Omega, but Omega’s active role insinuated by the author seems unfounded to me, except for bidding on the piece, perhaps.

Still, this article is an interesting read and testifies of serious research done. It just would have been better if it was more factually correct (and slightly less ‘tabloid’ to my taste).
My thoughts exactly.
 
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That comment is ( searching for the right Word here...) without substance / an assumption / strange .... Aurel acts exactly like the buyers wants him to be. He fills a void. He is an actor. He creates trends. He is one of many reasons, that certain vintage watches reached stratospheric heights. Bad for us normal collectors. Good for the industry. I watched him since the mid 90's, when he was with different Auction houses and learned the ropes. Cosied up with the Rich and famous in Munich and elsewhere. Bidders often pay more as they wanted to , because they feel like belonging to the inner circle of a close knit society. So, he gives them what they want. And got a fortune out of it as well.

I haven't had the opportunity to see Mr Bacs in the good old days, but I have followed a few auctions with him recently, and the man does know how to capture the audience and entertain them!
Nothing wrong with that, and its up to the buyers regarding the show and the buzz.
The problem might be that the buyers often are not so well read and learned about the watches that they want, (they might not hang out here on the Forum🙄…??) and trust a lot in the auction houses...
Combined with the "pre-grooming" of an upcoming watch!
And in Mr Bacs case, not sharing al the important information feels a bit wierd? Info usually leaks out and then the problems begins..