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F1 2021
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texasmade
·As a Lewis fan my main gripe isn't that he lost it's just the inconsistent application of the rules and procedures. Seems like Masi made it up as he went along to create drama.
All season long if lapped cars are allowed to unlap, then it's all cars unlap. Not just the first 4. During the race it was no unlapping, then a sudden change to unlap, then SC ending as soon as the first 4 lapped cars took off. Like wtf? The SC rules were applied one way all season and then the final lap they changed the rules. If the 4 cars in front of Max didn't unlap but then got blue flagged and Max passed Lewis, then tough shit for Lewis and his fans.
All season long if lapped cars are allowed to unlap, then it's all cars unlap. Not just the first 4. During the race it was no unlapping, then a sudden change to unlap, then SC ending as soon as the first 4 lapped cars took off. Like wtf? The SC rules were applied one way all season and then the final lap they changed the rules. If the 4 cars in front of Max didn't unlap but then got blue flagged and Max passed Lewis, then tough shit for Lewis and his fans.
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vbrad26
·Mercedes claimed that there were two breaches of the Sporting Regulations (Article 48.12)
namely that which states “..any cars that have been lapped by the leader will be required to pass
the cars on the lead lap and the safety car” and “…once the last lapped car has passed the leader
the safety car will return to the pits at the end of the following lap.”
Red Bull argued that
1. “Any” does not mean “all”.
2. The Article 48.13 of the Sporting Regulations states that the message “Safety Car in this
lap” is the signal that it will enter the pit lane at the end of that lap.
3. That therefore Article 48.13 “overrides” Article 48.12.
4. That Article 15.3 gives the Race Director “overriding authority” over “the use of the safety
car”.
5. That even if all cars that had been lapped (8 in total, of which 5 were allowed to overtake
the safety car) it would not have changed the outcome of the race.
The rules are vague, and full of grey areas. But also, didn't all of the teams agree to allow the rules to be somewhat lenient on the first and last laps and to not end on a safety car if possible?
namely that which states “..any cars that have been lapped by the leader will be required to pass
the cars on the lead lap and the safety car” and “…once the last lapped car has passed the leader
the safety car will return to the pits at the end of the following lap.”
Red Bull argued that
1. “Any” does not mean “all”.
2. The Article 48.13 of the Sporting Regulations states that the message “Safety Car in this
lap” is the signal that it will enter the pit lane at the end of that lap.
3. That therefore Article 48.13 “overrides” Article 48.12.
4. That Article 15.3 gives the Race Director “overriding authority” over “the use of the safety
car”.
5. That even if all cars that had been lapped (8 in total, of which 5 were allowed to overtake
the safety car) it would not have changed the outcome of the race.
The rules are vague, and full of grey areas. But also, didn't all of the teams agree to allow the rules to be somewhat lenient on the first and last laps and to not end on a safety car if possible?
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Foo2rama
··Keeps his worms in a ball instead of a can.Hamilton could have changed tyres but Toto chose to gamble on leaving him out on old tyres.
If Hamilton had pitted for new softs under the safety car period he would be on paper, the GOAT.
So no MB could not have pitted, as was the only option that had a potential for instant loss.
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Evitzee
·"Rules are meant to be broken", and so they apparently were. But it was right from a competitive standpoint to have the two car shootout.
F1 fans put a lot of focus on the drivers, but car preparation, pit crew performance (crazy 2 second pit stops) and strategy are as important. Toto Wolff and company are hard to beat in the strategy area, and this time they gambled there would be no safety car and Lewis would cruise home, except there was a SC and Lewis had knackered, worn out hard compound tires and Max had fresh, soft tires. MB gambled and lost. If there would have been 2 or 3 remaining laps Max would have won easily even if the four cars hadn't been cleared, but it turned there was only one lap remaining. The bottom line reason Max won is RB's strategy was better than MB's on race day. Toto made a decision that turned out wrong. That's life.
F1 fans put a lot of focus on the drivers, but car preparation, pit crew performance (crazy 2 second pit stops) and strategy are as important. Toto Wolff and company are hard to beat in the strategy area, and this time they gambled there would be no safety car and Lewis would cruise home, except there was a SC and Lewis had knackered, worn out hard compound tires and Max had fresh, soft tires. MB gambled and lost. If there would have been 2 or 3 remaining laps Max would have won easily even if the four cars hadn't been cleared, but it turned there was only one lap remaining. The bottom line reason Max won is RB's strategy was better than MB's on race day. Toto made a decision that turned out wrong. That's life.
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Foo2rama
··Keeps his worms in a ball instead of a can."Rules are meant to be broken", and so they apparently were. But it was right from a competitive standpoint to have the two car shootout.
F1 fans put a lot of focus on the drivers, but car preparation, pit crew performance (crazy 2 second pit stops) and strategy are as important. Toto Wolff and company are hard to beat in the strategy area, and this time they gambled there would be no safety car and Lewis would cruise home, except there was a SC and Lewis had knackered, worn out hard compound tires and Max had fresh, soft tires. MB gambled and lost. If there would have been 2 or 3 remaining laps Max would have won easily even if the four cars hadn't been cleared, but it turned there was only one lap remaining. The bottom line reason Max won is RB's strategy was better than MB's on race day. Toto made a decision that turned out wrong. That's life.
strongly disagree at no point would any coherent strategy tell them to pit based on the current gaps.
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vbrad26
·And sometimes you just gotta play the hand you are dealt lol.
We mustn't forget the "luck" factor either.
We mustn't forget the "luck" factor either.
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Evose
·Race decision aside, this loss will fuel Hamilton/MB next year. I suspect we’ll have an even more competitive season next year.
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lillatroll
·I won’t pretend to understand the intricacies of yesterday’s race, but as a very very occasional viewer of F1, yesterday’s spectacle was on a par with WWW. I think the whole thing was an embarrassing blot on the image of motor sport. I will watch the Baku Race, because I can watch them wizz round from my balcony, but apart from that I think it is a bit of a joke.
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vbrad26
·It will be interesting to see how it goes with all of the changes, that's for sure.
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Jonathan40
·I don’t see Masi in a job next season. He failed to implement the regulations fully when he only unlapped the cars between Lewis and Max while being screamed at by the Red Bull pit wall.
Max amassed his points over 22 races but was handed the title by a race director who panicked and failed F1 massively not just Lewis and MB.
The regulations are quite clear about unlapped cars and safety car remaining until they arrive in correct position and then the safety car comes in on the following lap.
He did it in Belgium as well when he had the teams follow the safety car for 2 laps to generate a result and give 1/2 points. Williams on the podium!!!!
There we’re other decisions during the season all discussed here and elsewhere over the season.
Lewis was very gracious in defeat, it was nice to see the dads embrace and have a few words together, both seen their sacrifice and commitment with their time towards their kids bear fruit. Helps that they both have unbelievable talent to go with the drive and determination.
Max amassed his points over 22 races but was handed the title by a race director who panicked and failed F1 massively not just Lewis and MB.
The regulations are quite clear about unlapped cars and safety car remaining until they arrive in correct position and then the safety car comes in on the following lap.
He did it in Belgium as well when he had the teams follow the safety car for 2 laps to generate a result and give 1/2 points. Williams on the podium!!!!
There we’re other decisions during the season all discussed here and elsewhere over the season.
Lewis was very gracious in defeat, it was nice to see the dads embrace and have a few words together, both seen their sacrifice and commitment with their time towards their kids bear fruit. Helps that they both have unbelievable talent to go with the drive and determination.
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texasmade
·It will be interesting to see how it goes with all of the changes, that's for sure.
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Evose
·The race resumed illegally in 2 ways. A lap earlier than the rules allowed and before all competitors were allowed to unlap themselves.
The FIA orchestrated an illegal resumption of the race to "go motor racing" when protocol and rules said they shouldn't have. To offer up a 1 lap shootout with a tyre difference of such magnitude is tantamount to corruption and interfering with the results in an illegal way.
This is the line Merc will follow.
If anyone is unhappy about a potential change to the result that needs to be directed at the FIA, not Mercedes who have been robbed by the governing body.
Not just robbed, the police turned up and let them in.
The FIA orchestrated an illegal resumption of the race to "go motor racing" when protocol and rules said they shouldn't have. To offer up a 1 lap shootout with a tyre difference of such magnitude is tantamount to corruption and interfering with the results in an illegal way.
This is the line Merc will follow.
If anyone is unhappy about a potential change to the result that needs to be directed at the FIA, not Mercedes who have been robbed by the governing body.
Not just robbed, the police turned up and let them in.
Edited:
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Martin_J_N
·But a lot of racing is being at the right place at the right time, and taking calculated risks and Max happened to find himself in the right place at the right time and his crew had made the right calls..
And if this had gone the other way, I would say the same exact thing about Lewis/Merc. Of course the Lewis fans feel shafted, but I wonder how they'd be feeling had the situation been reversed. I have a feeling they would find a way to justify it.
Such a great summary, nicely put.
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simonsays
·I don’t see Masi in a job next season. He failed to implement the regulations fully when he only unlapped the cars between Lewis and Max while being screamed at by the Red Bull pit wall.
Max amassed his points over 22 races but was handed the title by a race director who panicked and failed F1 massively not just Lewis and MB.
The regulations are quite clear about unlapped cars and safety car remaining until they arrive in correct position and then the safety car comes in on the following lap.
He did it in Belgium as well when he had the teams follow the safety car for 2 laps to generate a result and give 1/2 points. Williams on the podium!!!!
There we’re other decisions during the season all discussed here and elsewhere over the season.
Lewis was very gracious in defeat, it was nice to see the dads embrace and have a few words together, both seen their sacrifice and commitment with their time towards their kids bear fruit. Helps that they both have unbelievable talent to go with the drive and determination.
The fact that they did not clear any lapped cars behind Max, so he did not have the distraction of having to defend his position from Sainz is also sketchy.
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Martin_J_N
·I think when decisions are made based on spectacle and entertainment value than fairness, and following specific guidelines, then the sport loses credibility.
I’m an LH fan - but I’m also an f1 fan. Max was a better driver this season and you could tell he wanted it more. If he won legitimately, I would be happy with the result. This is a farce.
The race was over. LH was leading by 10+ seconds. To pit him against a driver with fresh softs is the equivalent of placing a college freshman against an NFL pro.
Sorry this WDC win is tainted.
I don’t believe the win or the championship is tainted, the ending of the race wasn’t right but a decision was made and the sport has to accept that.
The practice of letting lapped cars pass the leader to ensure that they are out of the way when a race restarts is nonsense in my opinion, this happened yesterday and on many previous occasions and is quite frankly bonkers. How can you give the guy in second place a leg up when the leader has done the hard work by passing them, leave the back markers in, let the drivers pass them on track not in the stewards office.
Whether the intention was to give Lewis and Max a chance to fight for the win on track rather than have it decided in a safety car procession is unknown, the race director will have to explain his thinking at some point. But the decision was made and the race was finished under green flag conditions.
F1 has and still is damaging its reputation by arguing this out, the race director made his decision and whether it is right or wrong it is his decision and it has to be respected. If this was the first race of the season it would have been debated and a new or amended process process put in place for future races, but it wasn’t it was the last race and a title decider, so yes it was a big decision.
Max won because a process that was allowed in previous safety car situations was allowed in this race, Max was lucky, Lewis was unlucky, it has gone the other way on occasions as well just not this time.
Maybe the solution would be to dispense with the safety car and go direct to red flag then you go back to the pits and have a grid restart, Lewis would then have been on fresh tyres, would he have won, who knows.
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arturo7
·It would be easy to accept the result if they had been on comparable rubber, but turning an unassailable lead into a one lap shoot out heavily favouring one driver is hard to see as a fair battle.
To be fair, losing the "unassailable lead" was the result of the safety car, not the stewards.
If Merc pitted and RB stayed out, the last lap would have likely gone the other way.
The only question is whether or not Masi would have ended the race the same way if Max was in the lead.
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Vercingetorix
··Spam RiskPlenty of controversial calls this year. Any one of which would have changed the outcome. It’s all a shirt show and always has been. In the end Mercedes won the constructors $$$. The drivers championship is just puffery.
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MRC
·It’s all a shirt show and always has been.
I'd call it "Shirtless and shoe-less -- not coming into this bar."
But I know what you meant. Those automatic smell chuckers are a pain aren't they 😉
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Archer
··Omega Qualified WatchmakerLewis was very gracious in defeat,
Indeed - imagine of roles were reversed...
If anyone is unhappy about a potential change to the result that needs to be directed at the FIA, not Mercedes who have been robbed by the governing body.
If nothing else, hopefully their protests will result in the race director losing his job.
