F1 2020

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What do you think of this list?

1) Juan Manual Fangio
2) Jim Clark
3) Alain Prost
4) Jackie Stewart
5) Michael Schumacher
6) Lewis Hamilton
7) Alberto Ascari
8) Ayrton Senna


That's The Economist's statistical analysis of the best F1 drivers 1950 to 2020. They looked at the relative strengths of the driver and the car, ranking by the performance of others in the same car and then performances in different cars.

One of their graphs is available without a sign-in


The whole article is in the paper edition (October 17th-23rd 2020) or free online with limited access to a few articles a month through https://www.economist.com/graphic-d...re-the-true-drivers-of-success-in-motor-sport


::stirthepot:: ::stirthepot:: ::stirthepot:: I think it's a good ranking, although I would disallow two of the list for their dubious tactics ::stirthepot:: ::stirthepot:: ::stirthepot::


I can only really judge the modern era, and don’t agree in the slightest. I also believe that every sport sees a year on year increase in abilities, so doubt Fangio or Clark would match modern drivers skills.

Looking at the modern era drivers on that list this would be my take


1.Ayrton Senna
2.Lewis Hamilton
3.Schumacher
4.Prost
 
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For the reasons.

Ayrton was just the greatest, passion and an almost ethereal ability that unnerved his opponents. That wet European GP where he made up 6 places on the first lap! He was astonishingly quick, usually not in the best car.

Hamilton is almost always on top form. He has been in the best car but his teammates have always been competitive and he has nearly always wiped the floor with them

Schumacher’s dominance and talent are legendary and set records everyone thought unbeatable. A dominant car and team that was built around him, with teammates chosen not to compete with him, but act as a wingman, and that he let himself down on several occasions with unsportsmanlike conduct drop him down the order.

How does Prost get above Ayrton? Sometimes you need to watch races not compile stats.
 
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How does Prost get above Ayrton? Sometimes you need to watch races not compile stats.

Prost is ranked 4th above
 
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What do you think of this list?

1) Juan Manual Fangio
2) Jim Clark
3) Alain Prost
4) Jackie Stewart
5) Michael Schumacher
6) Lewis Hamilton
7) Alberto Ascari
8) Ayrton Senna

And some of their watches
1. TAG Heuer Targa Florio
2. Gallet Multichron EP40-68
3. Ebel Sport Classic Chronograph
4. Rolex Cosmograph Daytona
5. Omega Speedmaster
6. Hamilton IWC Ingenieur Chronograph
7. Gevril
8. 1990s TAG Heuer S/el, Ref. S25.706C
 
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Qually was much more exciting than some races have been this season.
 
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Stunning performance from Lewis. What a way to wrap it up!
Not a single error all race. He should have had driver of the day.
 
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Nice to see Checko and Seb on the podium.

Hard to believe Perez does not yet have a seat for next season.
 
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Not a single error all race. He should have had driver of the day.
The way LH covered so many laps on one set of intermediates was incredible, they were almost down to the wire by the end. He will pass 100 wins by next season.
 
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The longest argument in all sports of all time. Is the current record setter better than previous generations greats?
The turbo hybrid cars are so difficult to drive and require a PHD is Astro physics to use the steering wheel. So much power that they smash all track lap records set before by all the previous greats. Different to the Turbo V10/8s with stick shift but equally tricky.
Sport was totally unregulated in the past with big teams spending the most and winning yet since 2014 development caps in all areas spending caps etc etc and still Merc give the platform to destroy other teams week in week out. Bottas has had the same equipment since 2017 yet still Lewis rises. Today was one of his greatest master classes and I’m proud to be British and say he’s one of ours because we don’t have many superstars on a global scale but he is just that.
Standard joke in our house that after qualifying and race day I do a Valteri accent and mutter the words “dam you Lewis” to my 10 year old son.
Was it more dangerous in the past, yes no doubt, were they more skilled than Lewis no way. 7 titles, 94 wins & 164 podiums, is he the greatest? He is in my eyes.
 
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Debate of the greatest will never be agreed upon. I started watching F1 when I was 5, first F1 race live when I was 7 (thanks dad!) And we've seen some amazing drivers since the early 80s, let alone prior to that. Different cars, different skills, different technology, different training etc. There is no way to know.

To me, I will always love Schumi and Senna, and some of the performances I've seen from them. Even Alonso has driven the tires off some subpar machinery. Unfortunately Merc has been so dominant that we don't often get to see that from Hamilton.

I think Hamilton is fast, fantastic and one of the best the sport has ever seen. The comment about Micheal selecting his teammates, quite frankly is no different than a mediocre Bottas. Merc is so strong that even with his blah performances he puts the car on the podium. At least when Rosberg was there we saw some form of racing with the Mercs out in front.

We should stop the comparing and be happy that we've seen this achievement happen and hope for rule changes sooner rather than later to make for more interesting racing at the front.

Big congrats to Lewis for his achievements and good luck to checo on finding a seat better suited for him than Haas!
 
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Debate of the greatest will never be agreed upon. I started watching F1 when I was 5, first F1 race live when I was 7 (thanks dad!) And we've seen some amazing drivers since the early 80s, let alone prior to that. Different cars, different skills, different technology, different training etc. There is no way to know.

To me, I will always love Schumi and Senna, and some of the performances I've seen from them. Even Alonso has driven the tires off some subpar machinery. Unfortunately Merc has been so dominant that we don't often get to see that from Hamilton.

I think Hamilton is fast, fantastic and one of the best the sport has ever seen. The comment about Micheal selecting his teammates, quite frankly is no different than a mediocre Bottas. Merc is so strong that even with his blah performances he puts the car on the podium. At least when Rosberg was there we saw some form of racing with the Mercs out in front.

We should stop the comparing and be happy that we've seen this achievement happen and hope for rule changes sooner rather than later to make for more interesting racing at the front.

Big congrats to Lewis for his achievements and good luck to checo on finding a seat better suited for him than Haas!

I agree trying to compare drivers from different eras is futile.
I do disagree with the comparison of Schumacher’s team mates and Bottas. I think he gets very harshly judged and although not a world champion he is a talented driver. If you look at how hard it is for Red Bull to find a driver who gets into the same ball park as Verstappen then his ability to be within 1/10ths and sometimes out qualify Hamilton or even beat him makes him a worthy teammate.
Schumacher had a long history of handicapping his teammates first at Benetton with Micheal getting the lions share of testing time, and later at Ferrari with mediocre teammates and team orders. Something that I have never seen at McLaren or Merc.

And yes let’s hope for better cars from Red Bull, McLaren and Renault next year.
 
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????
Alonso is a great driver, temperamental yes, but remove record chasing and the drives he put in, especially with a mediocre Ferrari were outstanding. He just made poor decisions. Hamilton himself praised Alonso. Having said that, by no means am I suggesting that Alonso is as good, but in different machinery, who knows.
 
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I agree trying to compare drivers from different eras is futile.
I do disagree with the comparison of Schumacher’s team mates and Bottas. I think he gets very harshly judged and although not a world champion he is a talented driver. If you look at how hard it is for Red Bull to find a driver who gets into the same ball park as Verstappen then his ability to be within 1/10ths and sometimes out qualify Hamilton or even beat him makes him a worthy teammate.
Schumacher had a long history of handicapping his teammates first at Benetton with Micheal getting the lions share of testing time, and later at Ferrari with mediocre teammates and team orders. Something that I have never seen at McLaren or Merc.

And yes let’s hope for better cars from Red Bull, McLaren and Renault next year.

When Bottas has a good day, or a fast Q3 lap, I agree with you, he's quick. Bit even some of those MS teammates won races and put their car on pole. Under pressure, he often makes mistakes, or starts with the lead and finds a way to concede it.

As for Verstappen, he's going to be a WC. He's matured a lot over the last two years. They won't find another talent like that through the RBR program for a while. I would love to see Perez there, they may challenge Merc a bit more often with both cars.
 
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Agree. Sort it out Red Bull. We all want to see Hamilton under pressure, give Max the car he needs to do it.
You can see from the way Lewis treats him to some condescending press conference advice that he knows Max is a big threat to his potential future championships.
It could be Lewis’s undoing if Max starts to out race him with some competitive machinery. I hope not, I would love to see some epic battles.
 
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That debate is always a difficult one. I think Jim Clark was so far ahead of his peers that its difficult to not rate him higher than everyone else. Its a weird one because the older drivers wouldn't be able to do 1 lap in the modern cars. I dunno if a comparison is really possible.

Regarding the current formula (2017-present), all I have to say is that I'm looking forward to the new cars/rules. Need to mix it all up again.
 
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fυck. (Sorry for the language). How can Grosjean possibly have come out of this alive. What a freak accident.