Does rarity change our aesthetic sensibility?

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For me personally @M'Bob it comes back to the simple mathematics of"

Do I like it + Can I afford it + Can I get hold of it = then buy it

If I don't like something, I'm sure as hell not going to hand over cash for it, no matter how rare it is.
 
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You can... but that doesn't mean you do.

And now that various dealers/houses/commentators have declared that watches are no longer watches, but instead assets - people who were never into watches, but have mega deep pockets are buying things because they are being told that they will appreciate. And they leave them sealed in boxes, to sell a year or two down the line.

The last Philipps NY sale was filled with watches being bought and sold by these people (I had a chat with some of them at the viewing in London)... and they are really, really not into this for the same reasons as us.

A double-edged sword, to be sure.

Many here, me included, would happily take a bump in asset value by the increasing interest, and decreasing supply engendered by investors getting into the game. Not so good, though, if you’re a dedicated enthusiast, and just getting started…
 
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If I don't like something, I'm sure as hell not going to hand over cash for it, no matter how rare it is.

Even if you were mostly convinced of a financial upside by holding it a while, and then using the profit for other purchases? That rationale is one of my favorites!
 
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A double-edged sword, to be sure.

Many here, me included, would happily take a bump in asset value by the increasing interest, and decreasing supply engendered by investors getting into the game. Not so good, though, if you’re a dedicated enthusiast, and just getting started…

A lot of this is happening in a space where enthusiasts rarely tread... or certainly those of us that don't have hundreds of thousands of dollars in disposable income... lange, patek, debethune... sealed, unworn, passed from safe to safe.

I find it very odd.
 
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Even if you were mostly convinced of a financial upside by holding it a while, and then using the profit for other purchases? That rationale is one of my favorites!

I don't have the cash to pay for the watches I like, let alone the ones I don't. ::facepalm1::

And don't purposefully buy things to sell on.... over the last 6 years most sales have been influenced by a need to pay for bills and food.
 
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Another point to consider is the collector's angle. Wallet permitting a=many collectors will collect rarity over personal taste because they can appreciate other factors besides the aesthetic and, frankly, may not even be interested on wearing the item. Again, like art collectors that keep their art in a vault.

My wife is a very passionate CongoScenti. She loves perfumes. Once in a trip to Spain she took me to a collectors lab because she wanted to check some new items. In the lab there was a 5 OZ bottle (can't remember the name" of the "purest musk ever distilled" The price was exorbitant, truly thousands of dollars. The sent was foul. almost unbearable. The collector laughed. "nobody can wear it, but it's abut the purity and potency of the musk. In our world this little bottle is an amazing craftsman's skill achievement.

He also had a number of animal oil based perfumes that are not even allowed in some countries anymore. It was an eye opener for me (or nose opener).

So, a collector can appreciate value outside of aesthetic...as you go down the chain economically or into the hobbyist and enthusiast territory wearability and aesthetic taste is more relevant.
 
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Nicely put, but I will add that there could be an economic factor. Here’s what I mean: if you have mega deep pockets, you can buy what you like with total disregard for what others think, It really won’t matter what the watch does value-wise.

My pockets were never that deep, so while I bought what I liked, I always had an eye on what historically remained desirable. Because of that, thankfully, I haven’t gotten slaughtered on the value of many of my pieces.

On the other hand, I love my Speedmaster 125, and yet few people do. So while it haven’t lost money on it, it’s stalled now in the mid $3K range, and honestly, I don’t see it going much up. No regrets, though…

I don't buy watches thinking about what the future value might be. I don't have "mega deep pockets" either, it's just that "getting slaughtered" isn't a concern, because if I've had enjoyment from the watch while I've owned it, I'm still okay with selling it at a "loss" on paper.
 
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Rarity doesn't make me want something more though what I like seems to be more rare and therefore more expensive.

I have to say that the 60s watches with their thin stick hands and round cases with stick lugs are the ugliest watches I've ever seen and that people seem to love them just baffles me.

Your money, your choice, though. I don't need to like what you like. 😀
 
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I meant the other one...from 1975 or whatever with the dubious Italian dealer connection...

I thought so. Wanted to both give you the opportunity to clarify and also to take the opportunity to tease you. Win-win 😀
 
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I don't buy watches thinking about what the future value might be. I don't have "mega deep pockets" either, it's just that "getting slaughtered" isn't a concern, because if I've had enjoyment from the watch while I've owned it, I'm still okay with selling it at a "loss" on paper.
Up until two years ago people may have shrugged off that statement but our turn for the one in 100 year pandemic has made it a whole lot more relevant.
 
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My wife is the same way ! Literally every speedmaster she sees I get the "is that the one you have? No!? It looks the same!"
On the plus side she has now taken to wearing my old Speedy reduced, which (to her) offers the look of a vintage Speedy in a more female-friendly size. It looks great on her and a watch I rarely wear otherwise gets wrist time.
 
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Absolutely yes! So do many other things: age, brand, price, history. Aesthetics are contextual. And that's ok.
 
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Rarity increase the desire but in the case of racing dials or spot of colour on the dial i love them..😀

 
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I'm with Archer on this one. Rarity doesn't make it ascetically appealing. The AS logo and history is interesting to me and worth a small bump. But no where near what people are willing to pay, at least for me. For example, the larger pushers are interesting but as a design feature actually detract from the watch.

It is even less appealing with the supposed number 499 that is invisible. (This number 499 is the physical version of a NFT.) It feels like the Alaska gold rush: the only people who got rich were the folks who sold supplies to the prospective miners.

Back to the topic at hand, the answer for me is still, it depends. If rarity is manufactured by limiting initial amounts, that won't make up for ascetics.

But if rarity naturally occurs because the ascetics appeal to a large group of people, then it would likely also appeal to me. Not because I am a sheep, but because I am human.

I wouldn't be interested in a watch simply because it is rare, but neither would I dismiss a watch because it is rare.

And I still love that racing dial. From those three colors you could paint all of Utah and Arizona, which have some of the world's most beautiful scenery.
 
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But if rarity naturally occurs because the ascetics appeal to a large group of people, then it would likely also appeal to me. Not because I am a sheep, but because I am human.

I think when we say rare, we mean few in number, not hard to get because demand is so high. Functionally however, you are correct, the economics are similar. Ultimately, the value of a rare watch follows the law of supply and demand like anything else. Supply is low always, but value depends on demand.
 
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I think when we say rare, we mean few in number, not hard to get because demand is so high. Functionally however, you are correct, the economics are similar. Ultimately, the value of a rare watch follows the law of supply and demand like anything else. Supply is low always, but value depends on demand.
Furthermore, If a "rare" item is readily available and on large supply it, regardless of price, will not be rare anymore. It may be unattainable to many, but not rare. Two very different concepts.
 
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Back to the topic at hand, the answer for me is still, it depends. If rarity is manufactured by limiting initial amounts, that won't make up for ascetics.

True; if I were more of an ascetic, the aesthetics would be immaterial…😀
 
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I think that rarity does change our aesthetic sensibilities but I don't think that it is insidious. I think that rarity is for sure a driving factor in the popularity of Racing Dial speedys. I think the interesting question is: how does the rarity affect peoples thoughts and desires on the watches? As a few "think pieces" have pointed out recently 2021 was in many ways the horological "year of the hype watch". I think that rarity induces people to lust after Submariners in different way than it makes people lust after rare speedmasters.

I am not taking a shot at Subs, they are great watches. It seems to me that many of the people who have talked to me about wanting to purchase a sub in the last 24 months have been driven by a desire to own an object that they like but that they want to purchase now as they know that it might be difficult to get at some nebulous time in the future when they would be more ready (financially, or from a collection standpoint, maybe finally taking a diving trip when this nasy pandemic is settled). I also get the sense that they would like the watch as a status symbol and for the challenge of sourcing and securing something that is seen as difficult.

In this way we see how rarity can change people's desire to own things. There is a mythologizing of certain kinds of rare or difficult to obtain items. The Sub is a very practical watch but its design is pitched on that practicality. Due to its iconic status and the amount of divers that are inspired by it (or outright copied) the watch can look a little plain. So when people tell me that a Submariner is their grail or that they love the design of the watch I tend to think that their aesthetic sensibilities have been warped by rarity. They desire the watch for other reasons (that's OK) and because of that desire (not originally linked to the design of the watch) they begin to think that the watch is beautiful.

In the case of these rare speedmasters I think that something else is at play. I am relatively new to watch collecting. I have been lusting after watches for a little over 24 months. Even in that relatively short time the shapes of a Speedmaster have burned themselves deeply into the synapses of my brain. If you handed me a blindfold and pencil and asked me to start drawing bet I could come up with a reasonable facsimile of a Speedy Pro. Omega have done a very good job of preserving the essential features of the asymmetric case speedmaster. I'm sure that so many of you are like me. Close your eyes and you can see the twisted lyre lugs, the tachy bezel, the 12 o'clock text, three registers, contrasting white on black, the shape of the chronograph hand. When I see a speedmaster I know what I am looking at, when someone tells me they have a speedmaster in their collection I can imagine what they have.

When something is so deeply entrenched in expectations any novelty really pops. When our brain expects to see a monochromatic watch and then is presented with neon oranges and deep reds that excites us. It subverts expectations and for me at least engages the imagination. How is it that this watch received such a different design while clearly still being a speedmaster? Why haven't I seen this before? What other variations could exist? That is fun and exciting its related to the aesthetics of the watch and driven by the rarity. I think that the racing dial watches are really nice, objectively I like the classic speedmaster a little bit better. I would not hesitate to add a racing dial to my collection (mark ii's are still within a mortals grasp at the moment) because its exciting and fun to look at.

What if you are William Roberts and have a collection of Speedmasters that the Omega museum is jealous of? Don't you think that it's perfectly legitimate that someone with a collection like that who has spent more time looking at speedmaster dials than many of us have spent looking at just about anything else might want something that is just a little bit different? Might he appreciate racing dials or solei dials in a way that we don't really understand due to his familiarity with the normal speedmaster and the novely of these rare models?

Of course this is all hypothetical because I am pure and just happen to love the colour orange 😉.
 
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Certainly not a "lightweight" first post - welcome.

In this way we see how rarity can change people's desire to own things. There is a mythologizing of certain kinds of rare or difficult to obtain items. The Sub is a very practical watch but its design is pitched on that practicality. Due to its iconic status and the amount of divers that are inspired by it (or outright copied) the watch can look a little plain. So when people tell me that a Submariner is their grail or that they love the design of the watch I tend to think that their aesthetic sensibilities have been warped by rarity. They desire the watch for other reasons (that's OK) and because of that desire (not originally linked to the design of the watch) they begin to think that the watch is beautiful.

I agree with what you are saying, but the Sub really isn't rare. There are millions of them out there, both used and new, that can be bought at any time (if you have the money). So this is artificial, or perceived rarity, as opposed to actual rarity, as both Nobel Prize and Dgercp have both talked about. I see it as "unattainable to many" rather than "rare"...

Cheers, Al