Watch aesthetics and cultural shifts...

Foo2rama · Apr 17, 2016

STANDY
Same as people driving old classic cars that are never as pristine as the top 10% in condition of the model. ( not everyone can afford a immaculate 911 but they buy a 911 because they want one)
There will always be the affordability/availability factor in vintage items.

Speaking of shifts... Affordable 911's disappeared 4 years ago.

STANDY · Apr 17, 2016

Foo2rama
Speaking of shifts... Affordable 911's disappeared 4 years ago.

Pre-moon speedmasters are on there way 😲

GuiltyBoomerang · Apr 17, 2016

I personally recently started watching Mad Men, and this quote from here (http://www.joesdaily.com/style/don-drapers-guide-to-luxury-watches/) pretty much sums up Don's style:

Don is represented as something of a connoisseur of luxury watches, having a new one in each season of the show.

Now each season has a year or two in between, so, as a high flying businessman, Don could very well collect watches. Such was the show's popularity JLC re-issued the 1960's style Memovax in the show in 2012.

Somebody mentioned about him getting watches repaired...there is a scene in either Season 1 or 2 where Don's wife mentions to her friend that she took Don's watch to be repaired after he took it "Bathing with the kids." She also gets it monogrammed to Don's surprise and gratefulness!

As for me...I see both sides of collecting. In terms of what I own, there's maybe two or three watches which are in pristine/collectible condition and they are barely worn and more for display. The rest are part of my rotation and maybe are slightly beat up/in fair condition compared to those couple of pristine pieces. I would consider myself young at 26, with about the only constraint being budget in terms of collecting. I showed my girlfriend my collection, and out of all the watches in my display box she liked a Felca mid-size, military style black dial watch, which is one of the daily wearers! To each their own~

styggpyggeno1 · Apr 17, 2016

Collectors aside - the trend in things sold new as distressed (faked patina) can only be found in societys where you have too much money/means. You no longer have to fight/work for the daily basics. When striving upwards in living standard you want new things and would never buy something that looked used. You already have that and that is what/where you are going away from. You want something better. Hence my theory - new goods produced as distressed is a first world "problem". Everyone else wants new to be new.

Bluemartinifan · Apr 17, 2016

M'Bob
This raises a very interesting issue: as the prices of Speedmasters continues to escalate, is our toleration of "lesser" examples due to a cultural shift regarding what appeals to us, or is it merely reflective of the steep price increases for prime examples?

My opinion is based on more experience w/ vintage Rolex but thankfully just entered vintage Omega world and look forward to being more involved with OF.
Price escalation already happened to 5513s, I see speedmasters taking a similar pricing arc ( not news to this group!). Top tier collectors have already owned and experienced lesser 5513 and or Speedmaster examples now only consider top tier examples. The balance of vintage buyers (general market) will accept a lesser example due to affordability, lack of experience or lack of patience - IMO that's the "toleration of lesser examples". Top tier standard matte dial 5513s were $6 - $8k 3 yrs ago, now best examples are $8 - $11k.
Most Speedmasters are in a more affordable pricing bracket ($3 - $8k) than subs, but represent similar collecting traits and enjoyment, also attracting more new market to vintage Omega, fueling price escalation. Oh and by the way if you are a Rolex sub collector wanting to expand into Omega, maybe you start looking for a 300, can't find them, but can still find nice speedmaster examples (at higher prices of course!).
I am excited to become part of your community, to learn and grow with you.
I think top tier vintage speedmasters see 20-30% appreciation in the next 24 months.

shaun hk · Apr 17, 2016

There's a term "shabby chic" that has been popular in the interior design / decorating world for some time.
And I have noticed that Seiko collectors are much more accepting of wabi sabi than omega collectors. Personally I think a slightly beaten up old Seiko diver looks somehow right, whereas I would flip straight past a beaten up vintage constellation on eBay.

Larry S · Apr 17, 2016

A watch, a pair of hiking boots a fine old bicycle, furniture, appliances, a driver quality classic car, old wooden boats, gloves, Persian rugs, ....if they have aged gracefully and well cared for they are beautiful. Same applies to us humans and our fellow creatures. That said I would never own wear or drive a rusty corroded torn or unsafe anything. I see some of the stuff on hipster watch sites and marvel that they have the cheek to sell it. And Hipsters .... Those of us who had to use typewriters in HS/ college welcomed the pc with open arms for a reason. Thank you however for bringing back Vinyl.

Cortezthekiller · Apr 17, 2016

I like objects with character and don't want or need to have the exact copy of what the next person owns. There can be beauty in age, deterioration and imperfection. Sometimes you have to pay a premium for this, and other times not.

mrchan · Apr 18, 2016

I dislike beat up watches too. I'd take a modern watch anytime rather than chance a vintage that I have to baby because the movement is delicate and is three time older than I am.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Thomas P. · Apr 18, 2016

Larry S
A watch, a pair of hiking boots a fine old bicycle, furniture, appliances, a driver quality classic car, old wooden boats, gloves, Persian rugs, ....if they have aged gracefully and well cared for they are beautiful. Same applies to us humans and our fellow creatures. That said I would never own wear or drive a rusty corroded torn or unsafe anything. I see some of the stuff on hipster watch sites and marvel that they have the cheek to sell it. And Hipsters .... Those of us who had to use typewriters in HS/ college welcomed the pc with open arms for a reason. Thank you however for bringing back Vinyl.

I could not agree more. In fact both yellow gold and pink gold develop their own luster from years of wear. It is a beautiful thing in my eyes.

axl911 · Apr 18, 2016

STANDY
Pre-moon speedmasters are on there way 😲

Totally agree!!! Why is it I am always a step late.

watchtinker · Apr 19, 2016

I do not tend to believe that worn or very aged specimens are really appreciated. Over many, many years my customers have always asked for parts replacement in order to bring the watches back to their original status.
On the contrary, I believe that appreciating beaten up examples is just a matter of current market action and fashion: would you buy a pristine, but worn specimen, for the only reason that you like it and knowing for sure that it will depreciate over the years?

Willem023 · Apr 19, 2016

I'd rather have a good conversation with the 'old guy', but that's just my2cnts (pics from i-net)
☕

Schermafbeelding 2016-04-19 om 08.39.00.png

Schermafbeelding 2016-04-19 om 08.38.08.png

ConElPueblo · Apr 19, 2016

Most of the demand for patinated/beat-up watches aren't, IMO, to do with noticibly more interest in vintage watches (and therefore accepting lower quality specimens), but originates in the current search for "authenticity", the need for "story telling" and a general shift in the consumer market. Items that are - or seem - sustainable and hark back to a past that is perceived as better and more peaceful/stressful than out present are in vogue at the moment. It has to be "unique", something to spark up a conversation and post on Instagram about.

Recently I posted this watch from a recently ended auction on a Facebook and to my surprise most of the comments were outstandingly positive.

IMO, it looks completely destroyed. But I guess that somewhere in Copenhagen, only a few minutes ago, a bearded hipster in skinny jeans has got of his fixie bike and ordered a flat white, proudly wearing this on the wrist. On a "vintage" distressed leather band, most likely 🤦

Dr No · Apr 19, 2016

ConElPueblo
Most of the demand for patinated/beat-up watches aren't, IMO, to do with noticibly more interest in vintage watches (and therefore accepting lower quality specimens), but originates in the current search for "authenticity", the need for "story telling" and a general shift in the consumer market. Items that are - or seem - sustainable and hark back to a past that is perceived as better and more peaceful/stressful than out present are in vogue at the moment. It has to be "unique", something to spark up a conversation and post on Instagram about.

Recently I posted this watch from a recently ended auction on a Facebook and to my surprise most of the comments were outstandingly positive.

IMO, it looks completely destroyed. But I guess that somewhere in Copenhagen, only a few minutes ago, a bearded hipster in skinny jeans has got of his fixie bike and ordered a flat white, proudly wearing this on the wrist. On a "vintage" distressed leather band, most likely 🤦

Those folks on Facebook know a cal 504 when they see one.

😀

al128 · Apr 19, 2016

Bluemartinifan
I think top tier vintage speedmasters see 20-30% appreciation in the next 24 months.

I completely agree with your post - very well written - shows you understand the mechanics of the market!

however, top tier speedies have appreciated 30-50% in the last 6 months or so ... (pls correct me if mistaken) ...

I still seem to recall posts from about a year ago shaking heads that somebody paid $1k for a nice DON bezel (perception then: thats an anomaly of an over-eager collector, not the going rate)... today the "going rate" is $2k. Thats 1 year later! 😉 ... we have seen $7k for a crappy-ass dial (again: thinking this is an exception/anomaly) rather than the market ... we will see how that turns out.

i blame the rolex crowd 😁

of course that trend will not go on forever - it will IMHO taper of , but it seems that you pretty much defined the current limits ... Plus old Speedies are more scarce than subs to boot with.

ConElPueblo · Apr 19, 2016

Dr No
Those folks on Facebook know a cal 504 when they see one.

😀

Well, with no movement shots and a dial like that, there might not be much in the way of a cal. 504 left 😉

Anyway, my point was that these people commented on the looks only - I really hope that somewhere a collector has gotten a good donor for one of his watches 😀

Watch aesthetics and cultural shifts...

Foo2rama

STANDY

GuiltyBoomerang

styggpyggeno1

Bluemartinifan

shaun hk

Larry S

Cortezthekiller

mrchan

Thomas P.

axl911

watchtinker

Willem023

ConElPueblo

Dr No

al128

ConElPueblo

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