Constellation dials: 'domed' or 'pie pan' or 'intermediate'?

Hallo friends,
I hope you can help me to understand the 'domed' and 'pie pan' or ... dials.
I did not find specific thread to unshade my thoughts and Desmond doesnt help either.
So I try to show exemples.
Here is one with a really flat dial:

Here are two very clear white dials, domed and pie pan:

• The 'domed' has the outer minute indication and long hands. No part of the dial is flat.
• The 'pie pan' has the twelwe sided flat inner part, the twelwe flat facettes and the inner minute indications and short hands.

- But then there are, especially from the 50s, 'intermediates' with the flat inner part but really circelled, the domed outer part and the inner minute indication or even railway and short hands.
So I cannot name these as domed nor as pie pan. How do the experts call these?

And here is a gold dial: domed or pie pan?
Even looking by a lens, due to the brushed surface I cannot say, wether the 12 facettes are flat or domed.

But the minute indicator ring has really 12 straight parts, so these 12 areas must be really flat (geometrically: two flats must meat in a straight line)
=> Is the straight edge the clear difference in the classification of pie pans??
...
⁣Gruss Konrad

Well done for starting a new thread @kfranzk

The first one, 168.018 is easy - it is a flat dial, so not a dome dial.
Your fifth watch is now known by most as a 'rail track' dial, so again not a dome dial

As you mentioned in the other thread 'pie pan' is a nickname, not an Omega designation, possibly based on a bastardisation of 'douze pan' meaning 12-sided.
http://omega-constellation-collecto.../the-omega-constellation-pie-pan-factoid.html

So there is no official Omega definition and the fact that Omega might use it in the OVDB is really neither here nor there because we don't know who compiled the descriptions in the OVDB and with what authority or why they attributed the term pie pan to what are clearly dome dials.

The simple accepted (by most) answer to a pie pan dial is that it has 12 faceted panels to the edge of the dial.
If it doesn't have that it is not a pie pan - no matter the length of the hands or outer edge treatment.

There are some (original) dials that are 'faux pie pans' i.e. made to look like pie pans but are in fact dome dials with a two-tone paint effect to make them look like pie pans.

Unfortunately, there are some genuine pie pan dials that look just like them but do in fact have gently faceted dials.
Both of these types of dials often appear on 168.004s
There is a thread discussing this matter and showing the front and back of a gently faceted pie pan dial.

I would suggest that your gold dogleg is the latter.

One quirk of dome dials/ pie pans with cross hairs is that:
The cross hairs on dome dials go right to the edge of the dial (I.e. through and past the indices or numerals).
The cross hairs on pie pans stop at the edge of the central plane of the dial.

hope that helps

My short answer: pie pans have a change in shape with facets between the center and outer edge, while domed dials do not, even if it appears as though there is because of a change in paint finish. Railtrack is different entirely.

For my view, there is a simple method to decide wether pie pan or not:

• The edge between a flat facette und the center plane must be a straight line, then its pie pan.
• The edge between a flat center and a domed outer area 'must' be a circle segment.

You can easily see that in my shown watches 2 and 3 and in the drawing below.
But again, how do you call these 'intermediate' dial shapes (pic 3)?
Its definitively not domed, as the whole center is flat.

well, the only thing that you haven't shown is an agreed upon dome dial.
However, I would contend that there is no such thing as an 'intermediate' dial and the 'flat' dial you describe (pic 4 not 3) is in fact simply a dome dial with a paint effect.
This style of dial with a paint effect also appears on 168.004s

@Peemacgee:
"the only thing that you haven't shown is an agreed upon dome dial"
Yes, 'domed' means an all rounded surface as a sektor of an e.g. elypsoid (like an idealized orange).
So how can I accept the term 'domed' for a dial, where the whole center is flat?

Thats why I would prefer another name for this type of dial. And I understand, that 'intermediate' is not very handy.
I would propose 'pan domed' or 'domed pan':

this is a dome dial 14381 - I don't think anyone would dispute the fact
however, it looks flat in the photo and it most probably is almost flat across the centre pane
if you painted a ring around the edge it would look just like the watch you show above

Ok, ok, I cannot be a newby trying to change usual conventions.
But @christos71 'flat dome dials' is exactly, what would have made it easy for me to understand, what is meant.
Konrad

but surely that has a raised flat panel in the centre of the dial and so, like the rail track is a separate dial type?
the dial @kfranzk is illustrating is just a normal dome dial with a paint job?

bearing in mind how uncommon they are, I think you get to call them whatever you like
😁

MSNwatch: "... One can just say piepan or non-piepan."
Yes, its all the way only an esoteric discussion between a few aficionados.

But if I were this fine watch of MSNWatch:

and someone would put my face in the same category box like the boring simple face of this domed dial watch shown by Peemacgee:

I would be concerned about my public image.
Konrad

Oy!
Just be careful about what you call boring!

I’ve written many times on OF about how I appreciate the simplistic elegance of the dome dial Constellation above that of more decorous versions.

Just because general consensus tells you that you are seeing things that aren’t there, there’s no reason to be rude about other folks watches.

( especially as that particular watch is my favourite go-to watch for any occasion)

Sorry Peemacgee, no offense in my mind. I do like watches with a simple plain or minimalistic face as well, but more sophisticated designs maybe more sought after.
Konrad