CK 2915-1 Off The Bay

dsio · Sep 29, 2012

The caseback being compared to the ebay one is off a 2915-2 which is why it has Speedmaster above it, but even withstanding that the 2915-1s with Speedmaster on the caseback edge, while feint, appear to use the same Hippocampus artwork as their base. The eyebrows on this ebay one are huge and angry looking while the reigns where they pass beyond the neck and come back in, don't rejoin themselves, the buttons on the saddle straps are a different shape, and the tail on the right picture where it spreads out into a flipper connects to itself and ends, while in the left version (from ebay) the tail is completely open ended and left to join into the flipper, the proportion is all different too, its a crappier version in every respect of the traditional hippocampus, aside from the Omega symbol not being there either.

Did the very first version of 2915-1 just have really low-grade artwork compared to the later versions, or is it possible that the caseback is as fake as the rest of the watch?

MSNWatch · Sep 29, 2012

I believe the earliest 2915-1 casebacks only had the speedmaster writing but no seahorse. The 2914-1 railmasters were this way (the ones I have seen) - just writing at the periphery and no symbol or seahorse in the center. The -2 speedmaster casebacks had peripheral writing, seahorse and omega symbol underneath the seahorse.

dsio · Sep 29, 2012

MSNWatch
I believe the earliest 2915-1 casebacks only had the speedmaster writing but no seahorse. The 2914-1 railmasters were this way (the ones I have seen) - just writing at the periphery and no symbol or seahorse in the center. The -2 speedmaster casebacks had peripheral writing, seahorse and omega symbol underneath the seahorse.

Ahk, I know nearly all of them with the Seahorse, its bloody hard to see due to how much its been rubbed off, some of them I was squinting at the picture thinking its been completely polished off entirely but maybe they never came with a Seahorse at all, just the writing. What are your thoughts on this one above?

dsio · Sep 29, 2012

Incidentally, this is half the reason these watches scare the shit out of me, there seem to be more exceptions than there are rules. Other thing with the one above is Trev being the font and art guy reckons it was engraved with fixed width entirely, while all the others I can find are variable width engraving.

Dash1 · Oct 1, 2012

dsio
Incidentally, this is half the reason these watches scare the shit out of me, there seem to be more exceptions than there are rules. Other thing with the one above is Trev being the font and art guy reckons it was engraved with fixed width entirely, while all the others I can find are variable width engraving.

It's a subject frought with difficulties for sure! One problem is that there where variations in the very early days of these models, for example the dial word spacing and the bezel engraving. I have heard that the bezels where hand-engraved with a machine much like small shop engravers use today (is that called a pantograph?? probably not) BUT I have not been able to verify that. It seems more likely the bezels where acid etched. Either way there are differences.
I haven't spent too long looking at the case-backs, but can give you this verified information:

The 2915-1 had the Seahorse logo enngraved on the back along with the Omega logo underneath and the word 'Speedmaster' on the periphary (ie.on the bevelled edge). The advertising material of the day suggested this could be polished out for engraving your name on the rear (it would seem this was commonly done or the Seahorse has just worn off due to wear on many surviving examples).
The 2915-2 was the same in all respects (apart from the -2 inside of course!)
On the 2915-3 the word 'Speedmaster' was moved onto the flat part of the case-back, above the seahorse just like the later models.

My feeling now is that the case of that ebay one is also a fake. The eyebrows of the seahorse and other points mentioned, along with the missing Omega symbol make it likely.

Here is a verified 2915-1 case-back for comparison:

BASE1000 · Jan 21, 2013

Hello guys, I am new here, though might have had contact with some of the Speedy vintage Collectors in the past.
Ash, I think we have had e-mailed about CK2915's back in 2010 already 😀

The thread-starting-watch is 100 % wrong in all parts! Even the caseback and the case is wrong.
The case shows too big buttons as well as to wide button notches. Btw. the 2915 case is different to the later cases. I recently tried a 2998-1 caseback to screw into a 2915-1 case and failed. The 2998 caseback does not screw in completely. There are some more details.

Concerning the caseback: The horse on the caseback is wrong and the Omega sign is missing. Ash posted the right thing 😀

dsio · Jan 21, 2013

BASE1000
Hello guys, I am new here, though might have had contact with some of the Speedy vintage Collectors in the past.
Ash, I think we have had e-mailed about CK2915's back in 2010 already 😀

The thread-starting-watch is 100 % wrong in all parts! Even the caseback and the case is wrong.
The case shows too big buttons as well as to wide button notches. Btw. the 2915 case is different to the later cases. I recently tried a 2998-1 caseback to screw into a 2915-1 case and failed. The 2998 caseback does not screw in completely. There are some more details.

Concerning the caseback: The horse on the caseback is wrong and the Omega sign is missing. Ash posted the right thing 😀

Hey welcome mate, its always great to see more Cal 321 Speedmaster guys on the site!

watchyouwant · Jan 21, 2013

yeah, definitely one to avoid. and most collectors will know by now. case could be from any straight lug model. the new bezel has a gap in the pics, because it is wider than the old case. there are custom made bezels lately, that are quite expensive, but much better....hands no good. pusher diameter seems too big as well. and if you paint the small hands, do it painstaking..... the step in the dial is hard to see; would need a better pics. for that, before splashing cash..... take care. kind regards. achim

cicindela · Jan 21, 2013

As long as we are back on this watch again. Does anyone know what watch this Lemania is likely actually out off? It has differences from any early Speedy 321 I have seen before in 2915 through 2998. For example the minute wheel jumper lever is a combined jumper lever/spring. Even the 321 engraving is suspect. Perhaps Archer will comment on it.

Elroy · Jan 21, 2013

How could anyone take the time to create that caseback, inner and outer, then leave off the Omega symbol on the back? The level of craftsmanship required to make that forgery would indicate a detail-oriented person. Very strange.

BASE1000 · Jan 21, 2013

yep, Steve, very strange indeed 😒

BTW I compared the inside of the caseback with mine and tend to say, that at least this looks preety right...

BASE1000 · Jan 21, 2013

Hi Elroy, from this point of view it is almost tragic, yep ::facepalm1::

P.S.:
Lovely Atavar pic!!!! The real thing...

MSNWatch · Jan 21, 2013

Hope we build up the speedmaster base here. I am still cautiously optimistic that this is the year I am able to get a correct 2915-1 or -2 which are getting harder and harder to locate.

Elroy · Jan 21, 2013

The term "grail" is tossed around pretty lightly among many collectors of many things, but I feel it is apt when referring to the 2915-1 or -2. Good luck on your hunt. I'd like to have one of each some day. Maybe two of each.

MSNWatch · Jan 21, 2013

One of my goals in collecting vintage omegas is to accumulate as many cal. 321 speedmasters as I can - one can never have enough and perhaps one day replicate what Gerry L did which is to own at least one example of every cal. 321 speedmaster made.

dsio · Jan 21, 2013

Don't think I've ever seen Gerry L or his collection, you have any pics?

MSNWatch · Jan 21, 2013

Here is the TZ post from 5 years ago with comments from Chuck Maddox:

http://forums.timezone.com/index.php?t=tree&goto=3385650&rid=0

You know you're a big time collector when you have 2 of the 2915-1 speedmasters (plus a -2 and a -3 making a total of 4)

watchyouwant · Jan 21, 2013

depend

MSNWatch
Here is the TZ post from 5 years ago with comments from Chuck Maddox:

http://forums.timezone.com/index.php?t=tree&goto=3385650&rid=0

You know you're a big time collector when you have 2 of the 2915-1 speedmasters (plus a -2 and a -3 making a total of 4)

depends, when you started. in the early 90`s it was no problem. had quite a few, bought at european watchfairs....needless to say, that i sold them all. very clever ! as i did with other rare watches, like a few panerai kampfschwimmer from the 40`s and a few rolex comex, many mil. subs from london in "shaved" and unshaved versions ( were cheaper than a normal 5513 because of these strange engravings on the back and these dreadful hands of the mil. sub.....) and an early rolex 5514 from the first series with the very small escape valve on the side. here most guys thought, this one was tampered with by an lunatic... early days....

Dash1 · Jan 22, 2013

BASE1000
Hello guys, I am new here, though might have had contact with some of the Speedy vintage Collectors in the past.
Ash, I think we have had e-mailed about CK2915's back in 2010 already 😀

Hi again and welcome to the forum! Plenty of Speedmaster fans here.

dsio · Jun 6, 2013

Looks like this one's still doing the rounds:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-OME...138808354?pt=Wristwatches&hash=item4ac55d5622

CK 2915-1 Off The Bay

dsio

MSNWatch

dsio

dsio

Dash1

BASE1000

dsio

watchyouwant

cicindela

Elroy

BASE1000

BASE1000

MSNWatch

Elroy

MSNWatch

dsio

MSNWatch

watchyouwant

Dash1

dsio

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