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13ZN Chronographs Inquiries and Information.

O
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This watch has some little problems, but the dial is amazing, it came from the ZioPapa’s collection, an old italian Longines collector.
But please, pay attention, it’s a Suiza dial.
 
minutenrohr
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1st I thought that it looks like a redial (but deleted my post 5
minutes later). Dial seems a bit strange but too many details are ok.
Asked DirtyDozen12 and he wrote that he also thinks that the dial is
original.
 
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Hi guys,

I was reading about 13ZN Chronograph from Longines and came across this one on Ebay:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/LONGINES-1...942270?hash=item5675b45dfe:g:~v0AAOSwr81UTh45

I have several questions / confirmations about the watch:

- What is the model number? I saw 20869 engraved on the back case, but I couldn't find any information when I googled it.
- The dial looks in good condition for something that is near to 70 years, so I was wondering whether it is a replacement dial.
- The asking price for the watch is EUR 10,900. Is it a fair market price?

Thank you.


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Syrte
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Welcome to the forum.

Sorry if this may be disappointing but I would not advise any purchase of this type and price for someone who’s unfamiliar with vintage watches and vintage Longines watches. Discerning dial originality based on pictures alone can be an uncertain exercise and in the end it’s only something that a buyer can confirm with an in person inspection on his / or her own or by hiring a trusted expert.

Even with a watch in hand mistakes can happen. If you don’t already know the answers for the questions you’re asking, then my advice is that this is not a type of watch you should buy.
Best regards
Edited:
 
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Thanks for the warm welcome and sound advice 😉

Perhaps I should be a little bit more specific regarding my intend of posting the auction. As you mentioned, I'm not in the position of purchasing any vintage watches at the moment, since I'm a total newbie.
Based on past experiences, I learned better when I had an example / case in front of me and discussed what's good / bad / right /wrong about the object / case with other persons whom were more knowledgeable.

This one caught my eyes while browsing the web and maybe I thought I could learn from experts in this forum on what they think about it.
Short conclusion: this may the wrong watch to begin with since it is not a suitable one for me to get near with.

On to more reading then 🙁
 
Syrte
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Well it might be more rewarding learning about watches that more accessible.
And the first stop should be @ConElPueblo’s sticky thread « Learn how to fish ».

You could also learn by scrolling back to the beginning of this thread and reading all discussions— but again it’s highly specialized content. Browsing through discussions of the vintage forums is also educational.
 
DirtyDozen12
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1 100rupiah
- What is the model number? I saw 20869 engraved on the back case, but I couldn't find any information when I googled it.
No model numbers exist. There are reference numbers associated with cases but most collectors would simply refer to this watch as a steel 13ZN.
1 100rupiah
The dial looks in good condition for something that is near to 70 years, so I was wondering whether it is a replacement dial.
The dial was probably not replaced but has certainly been refinished.
1 100rupiah
The asking price for the watch is EUR 10,900. Is it a fair market price?
No. The refinished dial renders this watch far less valuable than the asking price.
 
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DirtyDozen12 DirtyDozen12
No model numbers exist. There are reference numbers associated with cases but most collectors would simply refer to this watch as a steel 13ZN.

The dial was probably not replaced but has certainly been refinished.

No. The refinished dial renders this watch far less valuable than the asking price.

Thank you for your answers to all my questions.
 
DirtyDozen12
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gemstar gemstar
Unless you know for sure the dial was refinished then it is only an assumption.
Ask anyone who knows about Longines 13ZN dials and they will tell you, in a heartbeat, that the dial above has been refinished.
gemstar gemstar
As for a watch being refinished, it all depends on the rarity and value of an object that is either common or uber scarce. Of course there may be a drop in price but depends of the quality and authentic likeness of the original. 20 percent difference as one other member mentioned. But again depends on the importance and impossible finding of a watch that is rare and possibly incredibly valuable. If I had an offer to buy a 1970 hemi Cuda in rust free unmolested condition with the black paint faded I would not think twice to repaint to "Factory specifications" and get a much higher value.
Feel free to start a thread on Hemi Cudas.
 
DirtyDozen12
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gemstar gemstar
Asking and proof are 2 different things. Same as in court. If you have the evidence prove it. No need for snarky remarks about the Cuda thing.
My snarky remark is in response to your unrelenting persistence to undermine the efforts of Longines experts everywhere.
gemstar gemstar
It was just a metaphor.
I think you mean analogy.
 
minutenrohr
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Coming back to 13ZN: I looked upon "ebay/watchmeisterin/see other items". All offers far too expensive, even if compared with chrono 24. In other words: This seller makes no gifts and will not offer a steel 13ZN with original and untouched dial for a reasonable (even low? I believe original and untouched 13ZN dials are the Koh-i-Noors of the Longines universe*) price. Furthermore the dialfoot looks too bright/not copper-colored and the 5,800 000 movement number points to an earlier example (1938/39) that should have rail tracks on both subsidiary dials and the typical 13ZN subsidiary hands; not these 30CH styled ones. The case is polished.

*Analogy
$_57.JPG

5.900 000 movement number
 
DirtyDozen12
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gemstar gemstar
If I had an offer to buy a 1970 hemi Cuda in rust free unmolested condition with the black paint faded I would not think twice to repaint to "Factory specifications" and get a much higher value.
Everything written is literally true. You did not write that the watch is a car. The car is the analogue to the watch.
 
DirtyDozen12
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Back to the watch again, note the "M" by the driving wheel. This indicates that the watch originally went to France. Here is another 13ZN with the same case design and "M" marking. As expected, "Fab. Suisse" is printed on the dial. I would expect to find it on the dial above too. However, just comparing the dial to original examples from the period should be more than sufficient to convince any discerning observer.
1.JPG 2.JPG 3.JPG
 
DirtyDozen12
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LarryG LarryG
Is it worth to take arms against a sea of troubles?
At last, a metaphor!
 
minutenrohr
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DirtyDozen12 DirtyDozen12
Back to the watch again, note the "M" by the driving wheel. This indicates that the watch originally went to France. Here is another 13ZN with the same case design and "M" marking. As expected, "Fab. Suisse" is printed on the dial. I would expect to find it on the dial above too. However, just comparing the dial to original examples from the period should be more than sufficient to convince any discerning observer.

...good thoughts about that watch. Now we know what the clock might have looked like.
 
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