13ZN Chronographs Inquiries and Information.

cchen · Nov 14, 2016

DirtyDozen12
One of the worst redials that I have ever seen.

Thanks, can you point out what you see? Trying to learn more, thanks.

From what I understand the winged hourglass logo wasn't used on 13zn's?

minutenrohr · Nov 14, 2016

please read this:

http://longinespassion.com/oldlonginespassion/Longines_Passion/13_ZN.html

http://longinespassion.com/oldlonginespassion/Longines_Passion/13ZN_parte_2.html

DirtyDozen12 · Nov 19, 2016

Would a dial made for the 13.33Z fit on a 13ZN? The diagram below is far from perfect. For a start, neither movement photo was taken head-on. However, I believe that it provides sufficient evidence for those who doubt that 13.33Z dials can be retrofitted. I have attempted to account for the 13ZN's larger diameter (29.8 mm versus 29 mm). I have also tried to align the images using the points where the subdial hands would be mounted.

DirtyDozen12 · Nov 25, 2016

Here are three videos of Longines chronographs being disassembled.
13ZN:

12.68Z:

13.33Z:

minutenrohr · Jan 22, 2017

...another DUBIOUS offer:

http://www.ebay.de/itm/222385194533?ul_noapp=true

For me it is a correct case/movement combination with a badly redone dial.

"the posts are silver (not copper which would indicate an enamel dial)"

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rgds - h.u.

DirtyDozen12 · Jan 23, 2017

Enamel dials should be brass underneath and therefore present brass/copper colored feet. In this instance, I do believe that the silver dial foot is not problematic as the dial appears to be a solid (0.935) silver dial by Stern Freres. As such dials are uncommon in Longines chronographs, I find this one challenging to assess. The signature looks very similar to the one on my 9.47N (serial 4'848'xxx) while the outer track and particularly the subdials look quite odd.

Edit: One possible area of confusion could be that these Stern dials had "enameled" printing. That is, the dials were engraved and then filled with a sort of enamel and then baked(?). However, these are not generally refereed to as enamel dials.

minutenrohr · Jan 23, 2017

So the printing oddities could be original because of the "enameled printing"?
Not easy to believe that Longines could have sold such dials (regarding the accuracy of the regular enamel dials).
And the question (as seller stated) why should this watch have been fitted with a silver dial? The specifications of the romanian air force say "black".
Attached another of these silver dials with exact printing:

DirtyDozen12 · Jan 23, 2017

Very closeup photographs of the dial in question would be useful to assess the true accuracy of the printing. But I agree that certain aspects look wildly out of character. The similarity of the signature to my (and other) Stern dials has me puzzled.

Regarding the color of the dial, if Romanian dials were only black then I suppose that this dial is not original to the watch. It may even come from a 13.33Z. I notice that it has "Swiss" at the bottom. This seems odd for a Romanian bound movement, does it not? Maybe it is from an American watch.

minutenrohr · Jan 23, 2017

I´ve seen only one correct 6486/3824 ever: Black dial / no Swiss.
Yes, as you wrote: The other silver dial - the one I´ve posted - is from a 13.33Z.

cchen · Feb 2, 2017

are there any watchmakers in the UK who are experienced in servicing these? one just declined to service mine, citing the lack of spare parts, which I understand. there are some parts available on ebay, for exorbitant prices.... or is the best bet to send it directly to longines?

minutenrohr · Feb 25, 2017

A further one of these porcelain dialed beauties:

http://www.ebay.de/itm/322433984653?ul_noapp=true

Lume dial (without lume), non-lume hands - too short for this type of dial.

rgds - h.u.

yako54 · Feb 28, 2017

WTF? (What the Fake?)

I am leaning towards that at least case and dial are not original. Other opinions please.

http://www.ebay.de/itm/361914543236

minutenrohr · Feb 28, 2017

I think case + dial (edit: no - dial is a 99% fake) could be original. But the movement number doesn´t fit the case number - and the case number is too late for the style of the dial.
The lenght of the hands seems to be correct. Movement fixing is handycrafted. Surely a marriage. I would not buy it...

rgds - h.u.

minutenrohr · Feb 28, 2017

Forgot: The dial foot looks bad...

minutenrohr · Feb 28, 2017

And the search for - at least - one open six (or nine) on the dial is hopeless...

yako54 · Feb 28, 2017

Thanks @minutenrohr. I also think it is was put together.
Reagrding the case one very suspicious thing to me is the stamping and the finishing on the inner case back. Stamping should be "Acier Inox" instead of "Stainless Steel" and the finishing should show perlage instead of simple circular graining.
Considering overall appearance of dial and case it seems that somebody really tried hard to come close to the original. Unfortunately many people are already bidding. Maybe we should announce in the warning thread.

minutenrohr · Feb 28, 2017

"Regarding the case one very suspicious thing to me is the stamping and the finishing on the inner case back. Stamping should be "Acier Inox" instead of "Stainless Steel" and the finishing should show perlage instead of simple circular graining."

Yes correct. Sorry, I was in a hurry, but wanted to answer shortly. A 7,3 mio.-serial is a further supicious thing, should belong to a very late 13zn model, not a stepped casetype. The other offers of the seller are the same style, like "I don´t know nothing about vitage watches but sell them". Perhaps someone (who knows exactly that it is faked) gave it to him for selling it? It doesn´t fit into his portfolio filled with cheap trash.

Anyway, it´s one of the numerous faked 13zn watches that appear more and more and sometimes better and better. Let´s wait for DirtyDozen12, he will know what to do...

DirtyDozen12 · Feb 28, 2017

Agreed about the case-back finishing and stamping, it does not look authentic. This dial has appeared everywhere. Due to its unusual characteristics (weird signature, upright numerals in subdials with old-style typeface), the fact that it is always in great condition, and that it seems to defy chronology, I do not believe it to be original to any 13ZN.

An interesting comparison is with this original(?) dial from Goldberger. Note the smaller, more typical signature, the more contemporary typeface in the sub-dials, and how the numerals of the tachymeter scale are outside of the scale.

minutenrohr · Feb 28, 2017

...I wrote to the seller (in german language), that his (?) watch is partially faked, dial reprinted (etcetc.).
I´ll post what he will answer (if he will...)

yako54 · Feb 28, 2017

👍🍿