13ZN Chronographs Inquiries and Information.

loniscup · Aug 30, 2019

Aaaaand just finished after a few hours of reading 😁 What a thread!!
A mere thank you sounds so shallow in conjuction to your valuable contribution guys but...
thank you!!! 🥰

Syrte · Aug 30, 2019

LarryG
Is it worth to take arms against a sea of troubles?

You’re so practical @LarryG. Remember, the question isn’t whether it’s worth it, but “whether ‘tis nobler in the mind”.

LarryG · Aug 30, 2019

Ah, of course, that is the question.

alphabeta81 · Sep 5, 2019

Thoughts on this one?

I have never seen the outer track look like this - aesthetically it's a neat look, but it baffles me a bit how the outer track is like that and the inner dial is so clean. Comes with Extract showing it was sold to Uruguay and is reference 4571

divetime · Sep 5, 2019

alphabeta81
Thoughts on this one?

I have never seen the outer track look like this - aesthetically it's a neat look, but it baffles me a bit how the outer track is like that and the inner dial is so clean. Comes with Extract showing it was sold to Uruguay and is reference 4571

Looks good to me! Unusual and interesting watch!

alphabeta81 · Sep 5, 2019

Yeah it looks good to me - all fonts are right I think - but have you ever seen another like it? I think DirtyDozen12 always says, if you have not seen another like it, buyer beware (to paraphrase if you will). And I have not seen a track like that color wise - also seems like the track de colorized over time but the center dial didn't at all? Isn't that odd? (I am asking as a relative newbie compared to some of the experts here)

divetime · Sep 5, 2019

I have a friend who owned a black white 13zn as well. Pretty sure it began life as black and white and black faded to gray. It looks legit to me

Syrte · Sep 5, 2019

A stunning beauty.

jsducote · Sep 5, 2019

Kerning of the 'Longines' looks odd to me, bigger gaps in LONG than in GINES. The outer track looks like it might have been blued steel, like the hands, which is unusual in its own right, and the hands show no deterioration. Pretty thin case too, very unusual lugs. I'm solidly in the "never seen one like this, beware" camp.

*Note: The preceding cavalier opinions have not been approved by the Lords & Ladies of Omegaforums. Readers are encouraged to refute them, should they deign worthy, or disregard at a minimum.

DirtyDozen12 · Sep 5, 2019

@alphabeta81 Dial looks original. Certainly an uncommon design. I imagine that the outer part has worn differently due to its constitution, as well as its proximity to the gap between the bezel and the mid-case.

DirtyDozen12 · Sep 5, 2019

alphabeta81
I think DirtyDozen12 always says, if you have not seen another like it, buyer beware (to paraphrase if you will).

I think that this is a useful approach when there are multiple, atypical features. Also, if condition is exceptional and there is an atypical feature. In other cases, a single trait that is unusual may not be cause for concern. There were so many dial variations that no one has seen them all.

DirtyDozen12 · Sep 5, 2019

jsducote
Kerning of the 'Longines' looks odd to me, bigger gaps in LONG than in GINES. The outer track looks like it might have been blued steel, like the hands, which is unusual in its own right, and the hands show no deterioration. Pretty thin case too, very unusual lugs. I'm solidly in the "never seen one like this, beware" camp.

Not enough talk about kerning! Does seem slightly out of the ordinary but not horrendous.

minutenrohr · Sep 6, 2019

As the watch is offered by "Cars and Watches"

https://www.carsandwatches.com/watches/longines-13zn-pulsations

I would expect a well preserved watch with untouched dial. I have never bought anything there before, but it seems as if the seller has developed more and more competence over the years. Not exactly cheap, but beautiful watches.

Syrte · Sep 6, 2019

I don’t think there’s the slightest question about this dial or watch.
May I kindly remind newbies that uninformed comments on forums based on little experience can be very damaging to the owner of a watch.
Those watches can be very valuable and this is not a sport. If you don’t have enough experience or knowledge to form an educated opinion, may I suggest you ask others instead of guessing aloud or offering « votes».

Just because you’ve never seen it doesn’t mean it’s wrong— especially if you’ve only been paying attention for 6 months.

Thanks and best regards

alphabeta81 · Sep 6, 2019

Syrte
I don’t think there’s the slightest question about this dial or watch.
May I kindly remind newbies that uninformed comments on forums based on little experience can be very damaging to the owner of a watch.
Those watches can be very valuable and this is not a sport. If you don’t have enough experience or knowledge to form an educated opinion, may I suggest you ask others instead of guessing aloud or offering « votes».

Just because you’ve never seen it doesn’t mean it’s wrong— especially if you’ve only been paying attention for 6 months.

Thanks and best regards

Not sure who you are referring to with the "paying attention for 6 months" but I have owned 13zns and 30chs for almost 10 years. So must not be me that you're talking about (especially given you made up "6 months" number out of thin air it seems) .... That said, given the 20 and 30 year history of some of those on the forum, I humbly and respectfully call myself "a newbie" as well since 10 years is not much experience after all.

I would encourage you to re-read my question rather than come to false assumptions. I did not ask if the dial is original. I know it's original. To quote myself: "Yeah it looks good to me"

My questions were 2 fold
1) Have you seen another like it? (with outer track deterioration like this) - so far nobody has shown me another example, I am curious if this happened on other pulsation dial 13zns for example
2) I also asked HOW this deterioration can happen. Thank you to those who gave their thoughts as to what could have caused this to happen.

I appreciate the discussion, and by no means is this sport to me. The seller is one of the very best and one of the few that I trust completely FWIW.

jsducote · Sep 6, 2019

Syrte
Just because you’ve never seen it doesn’t mean it’s wrong— especially if you’ve only been paying attention for 6 months

Rather than shitting on people with less experience, why not tell us specifically why you have NO questions about this dial?
Your experience is useless unless you share it.

DirtyDozen12 · Sep 6, 2019

@alphabeta81 Just for clarification, are you assuming that the dial started out life with a pulsation scale that was printed with black ink and has worn to show the inverse? I am inclined to think that the dial began like this, with a contrasting pulsation scale. The wear I mention above was simply referring to the inconsistency of the grey tone, which looks to have aged in certain areas. I do not recall seeing another Longines dial quite like this but below is a Lemania with a similar ethos.

Larry S · Sep 6, 2019

That OP watch is very interesting. In my experience, especially with UG, pulsation dials are always a bit odd and worthy of scrutiny. With all due respect, I think dial debates are healthy and build the knowledge base. Certainly they are on the UG forum. Sometimes they are unresolved but everyone is better informed thereafter. 13ZN given the number of questionable dials and high prices, are especially deserving of scrutiny.

alphabeta81 · Sep 6, 2019

@DirtyDozen12 --- my original thought is that it started out as a standard 2 tone pulsation dial (light silver inner, slightly darker silver outer track if you will --- like many of these I have seen) and somehow with time and wear became as it stands today - but I cannot explain how the outer track would wear and darken so much, but the inner would stay the way it is.

Perhaps you are right, the outer track started off dark dark grey (like the inner portion of the lemania you posted) and wore down and got spotted over time. But again, I have seen so many versions of this reference but do not recall one with inner track as light silver and outer track as that dark (like the lemania inner part).

For example, this one below has the outer track darken and the inner track has stayed light (let's call it the AntiM to avoid confusion).

The AntiM I can understand how it came to be as such -- for the watch in question (13zn pulsations), the sheer degree to which the outer track has darkened, combined with minimal wear on the inner part of the dial - that baffles me. Again, I am NOT saying it's altered or not original - but I am asking how it could have happened. One good explanation is - nothing actually happened and the dial was, from the very start, a "super dark" outer track and usual light inner track (even if we cannot find another such 13zn)

Syrte · Sep 6, 2019

jsducote
Rather than shitting on people with less experience, why not tell us specifically why you have NO questions about this dial?
Your experience is useless unless you share it.

I don’t think I « shat ». I’m a lady and I have manners. I did my best to « suggest » very politely and to draw « KiNDLY » your attention to a serious issue.

Others have already provided explanations- I don’t see the need to duplicate what others have said.
If you had asked nicely I might have tried to expand— but since you’re being rude I don’t see why I should spend the time.