13ZN Chronographs Inquiries and Information.

DirtyDozen12 · Dec 15, 2015

Hello OF Mods,

Considering the plethora of variations, rampant redials, and widespread fascination, I feel that a sticky thread, dedicated to 13ZN inquiries, may be in order. There have been quite a few threads about 13ZNs of late. A centralized (sticky) thread may become a valuable resource if this trend continues. However, I do not know what the creation of a sticky thread entails and therefore respect your judgement on the matter.

The first is surely a redial with a very poor signature. The second looks suspicious to me as well. The large numerals are in a font that is usually found in much older watches and the open minute track, with round 3s and a closed 6, seems odd too.

minutenrohr · Dec 18, 2015

I agree, the first dial is a fake and the second one probably too - never saw round 3s and a closed 6 on such an old dial. But it should be mentioned, that the second one is not a 13zn but a 15" (valjoux movement). The price is absurd, because nobody pays that much for a valjoux type...

rgds - h.u.

DirtyDozen12 · Dec 18, 2015

Thank you for the correction. I was unaware that Longines used Valjoux movements at that time.

minutenrohr · Dec 18, 2015

They did, but I never saw one with two pushers. ???

cicindela · Dec 18, 2015

Well for one we will have to have Dennis analyze the need. @ulackfocus

ulackfocus · Dec 18, 2015

@LouS is the man to ask about these chronographs.

minutenrohr · Dec 19, 2015

I phoned to Mr. Meertz, seller of the two watches above, and he said that he will research a bit. In my Longines text collection is only one passage about the cal. 15": "...during the the 20ties and 30ties Longines equipped chronographs with a cal 15" based on the Valjoux 22 GH" **. It was a movement with a pusher at "2", terminated by Longines. From it´s precision watch manufacturing Longines took he screwed stud. The caliber 15" has been gilt by Longines and had a column wheel + clutch, a monometallic balance with four regulating screws + breguet spiral. The levers had been decorated with "Genfer matt" and were beveled."
Nothing about a Two pusher version...

**has in fact 15" instead of 14" (as the common Valjoux 22) and, sometimes, two pushers

rgds - h.u.

DirtyDozen12 · Dec 19, 2015

It would be interesting to see an image of the movement...

minutenrohr · Dec 20, 2015

longines%20chrono%2015%20linien%20copy_zpsuhc6kmqr.jpg

I believe Mr. Meertz won´t discuss his watches or dials with me, because I don´t buy at his shop.
But he is interested in the question if one of his offers is a really-rare-special-item.
So i´m curious, what he will tell me tomorrow.
Pics from "Klassik Uhren 4/95 / O. Hartmann.

rgds - h.u.

DirtyDozen12 · Dec 20, 2015

Thank you for the photograph, the description was very accurate.

It seems that 2 pushers is not impossible: http://www.orologiko.it/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4013&start=5130

minutenrohr · Dec 20, 2015

Thank you - that 15"/two pushers seems to be quite rare. Anyway: I would not pay so much for it, although it´s probably rarer than a 13ZN chrono.

minutenrohr · Dec 22, 2015

I called him a second time (he was absent) and asked for a recall. Tacet...

nicola1960 · Dec 23, 2015

DirtyDozen12
Thank you for the photograph, the description was very accurate.

It seems that 2 pushers is not impossible: http://www.orologiko.it/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4013&start=5130

Longines Fly-back caliber 15 L (Valjoux 22), precursor of Longines 13ZN fly-back.

http://orologi.forumfree.it/?t=71486157&st=30

DirtyDozen12 · Dec 23, 2015

@nicola1960 Thank you for the information!

minutenrohr · Dec 23, 2015

P.S.: One of my friends here in Germany owns a 13.33 from 1928 that also has a flyback function.

DirtyDozen12 · Jan 1, 2016

Encountered this image recently and wondered if anyone has any thoughts. I find the subdial printing imperfect, especially the closed 6 on the hour counter. The outer minute track numbers do not look correct either. The "Longines" font is difficult to assess but the overall look and even color of the dial (it appears too white) rubs me the wrong way. Below the watch in question is an original example for reference.

View attachment 185885

minutenrohr · Jan 1, 2016

The distance inside the outer 55, 50, 45 etc. is too small...

DirtyDozen12 · Jan 1, 2016

Also, the 9 on the hour counter should be open. The entire 'inside' of the luminous 4 should be visible. And the back part of the luminous 7 that is perpendicular to the flat top, should be longer.

DirtyDozen12 · Jan 2, 2016

I would like to reiterate certain points of concern in a more explicit manner.

1. The bottom part of the 3's and 5's in the outer minute track should be essentially straight (not curved) and parallel to the top part.
2. The 6's and 9's in the hour counter subdial should be open (not closed).
3. The straight part of the back of the luminous 7 should be as long as the straight part of the front.
4. The entire cutout in the luminous 4 should be visible (not cut off by the hour counter subdial).

Here are other examples to compare.

View attachment 186278

minutenrohr · Jan 15, 2016

here she is:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/LONGINES-VI...D-STEEL-CENTER-MINUTES-ca-1945-/151950580368?