Why would NASA care?

Dave Marskell · Jul 14, 2020

I figure my headline would get some attention 😉 Firstly, I've been around forums for 25 years however, I'm a newbie to this one. I see there's an extraordinary amount of interest in which astronaut wore exactly which watch, when? Furthermore, supposedly NASA has actually kept records of this. What I do not understand, is why NASA would even care? Was it just a simple matter of inventory control because the watches were their property or was there more to it?

Syzygy · Jul 14, 2020

Welcome to OF! While there are many members here that have extensive knowledge based on their research and could provide much more detail, I would agree that inventory control is a major factor. The value of a 'flown watch' for collectors correlates directly with the desire to have one...it's very high!

Another reason, at least in my mind, would be the scientific side of the card...tracking inventory closely allows for testing of any faults if they were to occur, and each watch is just like any other instrument utilized in each mission. Find the fault, find the fix, or find the redundancy required to overcome the fault in future missions.

Donn Chambers · Jul 14, 2020

Hey, Dave! Welcome to the OF. I remember you from TimeZone. I think this is a way cooler forum, so hang out mostly here now. In answer to your question, I think it’s mainly because NASA catalogs everything and it was just procedure. While I have never been directly employed my NASA, I have had numerous grants from them for my research. Back in the late 90s when I was at the University of Texas, we had a Mac desktop system that we used for the grant work and paid out of the grant. It required a NASA tag, and when the grant ended, we had to ship the then 6-year old (and obsolete) desktop to NASA.

gdupree · Jul 14, 2020

Dave Marskell
why NASA would even care?

When the smallest detail, like timing a life-critical manual burn on a crippled Apollo 13, comes down to a reliably functioning watch, I'm glad that they did care. The processes of managing information and systems is the very DNA that allowed NASA to be successful at what many have not. Small details aren't important, until they are. Having access to information empowers controllers to make decisions when it matters most.

Dave Marskell · Jul 14, 2020

Donn Chambers
Hey, Dave! Welcome to the OF. I remember you from TimeZone. I think this is a way cooler forum, so hang out mostly here now. In answer to your question, I think it’s mainly because NASA catalogs everything and it was just procedure. While I have never been directly employed my NASA, I have had numerous grants from them for my research. Back in the late 90s when I was at the University of Texas, we had a Mac desktop system that we used for the grant work and paid out of the grant. It required a NASA tag, and when the grant ended, we had to ship the then 6-year old (and obsolete) desktop to NASA.

When I got banned from TZ I took it as a badge of honour 😀

jsducote · Jul 14, 2020

Well, one way to look at it (and I'm not suggesting it's the only way) is that NASA has always approached flight and spaceflight as a scientific pursuit. They weren't just "flying around" up there for the fun of it. Ask any astronaut and he'll tell you that there's actually very little time to look around and enjoy the view. Every minute of every mission is scripted, sometimes to the second. The amount of data recorded is staggering, and it's not just about using the watches to record timing, but measuring the watches as well from a scientific basis. If the difference between two otherwise identical tests can be attributed to two otherwise identical timing devices, then you've eliminated a potential source of error. In short, I think it's about capturing and accounting for all of the variables.

SpeedyPhill · Jul 14, 2020

During preparations for each manned NASA mission, technology transfer & hardware needs went as far detailed to the decision of using the most dependable photographic & most reliable toolwatches for the mission.

Dor_42 · Jul 14, 2020

One more reason that hasn’t been mentioned here yet and I think is relevant-
The most ordinary things could become very lethal in space, like the use of hesalite vs sapphire because of little fragments that could be inhaled if the sapphire cracked...
So maybe part of knowing exactly what went up there was to make sure it can’t endanger the austronauts in any way.
Also, knowing what you have to the smallest details could help with finding very creative solutions to big problems in the hostile environment of space.

time flies · Jul 14, 2020

Dor_42
One more reason that hasn’t been mentioned here yet and I think is relevant-
The most ordinary things could become very lethal in space, like the use of hesalite vs sapphire because of little fragments that could be inhaled if the sapphire cracked...
So maybe part of knowing exactly what went up there was to make sure it can’t endanger the austronauts in any way.
Also, knowing what you have to the smallest details could help with finding very creative solutions to big problems in the hostile environment of space.

Knowing exactly what was on board allowed the design and construction of the O2 scrubber unit on 13. Or so claims Ron Howard

have fun
kfw

WatchTimes · Jul 14, 2020

Because sometimes over redundancy is a good thing and people like us eat it up to search for the same models

snunez · Jul 15, 2020

I worked for NASA in my first job out of uni. They track everything as a part of what we'd now call TQM. In fact my relatives were in the QA group for most of the missions from early Apollo to late shuttle. There isn't a specific reason as to 'why watches', but more generally any piece of flight hardware had to have records from the manufacturer (and depending on the piece of kit, their suppliers, and their suppliers, etc) all the way to disposal. That way if anything ever went wrong they could track it back and, if anything came from the same batch, have a look and make sure it wouldn't happen again.

gdupree · Jul 15, 2020

Satisfied @Dave Marskell ?

pdxleaf · Jul 15, 2020

Regarding your question about inventory control, the boring explanation is the main reason. @Donn Chambers and I share a similar opinion. I have worked for the federal government including for NASA (Goddard space flight), the Army, NSA and BPA and they all followed similar rules.

There may have been useful scientific reasons for tracking the equipment. Those would have been secondary or by-products. The primary reason is that all property and equipment was purchased with taxpayer money and belongs to the taxpayer. As with any institution, there are abuses and lapses. However, this policy of inventory control is taken seriosly, if not a bit anal at times. (The worst abuses occurred in the Army. They have an inventory control problem that is partly driven by politics. The defense department control issues are not worth discussing here.)

Dor_42 · Jul 21, 2020

Does anyone know if there’s a list of what watches went to space on what mission and which astronaut wore it?
Was wondering what Ilan Ramon had on his wrist when he went to space.
He was the first Israeli astronaut and was part of the crew onboard the Columbia space shuttle when it crashed.

TLIGuy · Jul 21, 2020

Dor_42
Was wondering what Ilan Ramon had on his wrist when he went to space.

Illan Ramon wore an Omega X-33 on a kevlar strap. His and a number of the STS-107 crew watches were recovered post accident and retuned to family members. The Ramon family also received a miniature Torah he flew on STS-107 that survived intact during the reentry break up.

Here is the only public photo of one of the watches recovered from STS-107. It was carried for a friend by David Brown and its hands are frozen within a second or two of the time that the break up of Columbia began.

Dor_42 · Jul 21, 2020

T TLIGuy
Illan Ramon wore an Omega X-33 on a kevlar strap. His and a number of the STS-107 crew watches were recovered post accident and retuned to family members. The Ramon family also received a miniature Torah he flew on STS-107 that survived intact during the reentry break up.

Here is the only public photo of one of the watches recovered from STS-107. It was carried for a friend by David Brown and its hands are frozen within a second or two of the time that the break up of Columbia began.

Do you mind me asking what is the source for this information? Couldn’t find anything on Google...

TLIGuy · Jul 21, 2020

Dor_42
Do you mind me asking what is the source for this information? Couldn’t find anything on Google...

I have been privy to information I would prefer to keep confidential. That said, if you read the great book Bringing Columbia Home by Michael Leinbach (STS-107 Launch Director) It discuses at length the recovery and disposition of astronaut personal effects including the return of the Micklos watch.

Dor_42 · Jul 21, 2020

T TLIGuy
I have been privy to information I would prefer to keep confidential. That said, if you read the great book Bringing Columbia Home by Michael Leinbach (STS-107 Launch Director) It discuses at length the recovery and disposition of astronaut personal effects including the return of the Micklos watch.

Fair enough, thanks for the info and thanks for the book recommendation, I will look for it not only for the part regarding the watch but because I was always interested in what happened on this mission.

When I was in high school I hade to prepare a lecture on a subject chosen by me as punishment for something I did (can’t remember what it was), the subject I chose was the Columbia story and why I thought the writing was on the wall and how they could have been saved.
The Ramon family in particular is a tragic story

TLIGuy · Jul 21, 2020

Dor_42
Fair enough, thanks for the info and thanks for the book recommendation, I will look for it not only for the part regarding the watch but because I was always interested in what happened on this mission.

I can not recommend it enough. It is a fantastic read about the effort to locate and recover the STS-107 debris and how they assembled the wreckage to help determine how the final few minutes unfolded.

Why would NASA care?

Dave Marskell

Syzygy

Donn Chambers

gdupree

Dave Marskell

jsducote

SpeedyPhill

Dor_42

time flies

WatchTimes

snunez

gdupree

pdxleaf

Dor_42

TLIGuy

Dor_42

TLIGuy

Dor_42

TLIGuy

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