Why is it so bad to put a "better" movement in an old watch?

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In my opinion it is better to buy a new watch and use a vintage watch sparingly if one wants to reduce wear and tear to the watch. I want my watches to be unmolested, their scars are part of their history, the movement is its heartbeat. A new crystal or replaced strap I can live with, a new movement, its like sticking a new head on your body, its not you any more. In the same way that a different movement would turn that watch into a diffferent watch.
 
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But not everyone is a collector right?
Many people don't wear a watch (let's call them type A).

Of those who do wear watches, many (most?) wear Quartz or Smart watches (let's group them into type B) and some wear mechanicals (type C).

Of those who wear mechanicals, most likely prefer modern pieces (type C1) and a small percentage prefer "vintage" (type C2).

Obviously people don't neatly fall into only one pure category, but I'd bet most at least lean one way or another.

I fall under the C1 category. I strongly prefer mechanical watches, but of the more modern/recent/newer variety. For me, I want a trusted and reliable timepiece that I won't have to worry about. So far I have always purchased new, but if I were ever to purchase used, I might be okay buying a watch that had been modified in some way as long as it had been done by a trusty watchmaker (like @Archer or several others known on this forum) and the mod(s) were clearly disclosed and no premium was being charged for what the watch was made to "be like" or "look like".

However, as was already pointed out, "the movement IS the watch". I don't understand what makes a watch case and dial so special that the "movement" would be replaced. I would see a much higher probability that someone would take a good reliable movement in a good case and have the dial replaced since the dial is an aesthetic item.

But most people aren't purists. In fact I'd say 99.99% of people who wear watches just like watches and would say "yes please" if their watchmaker told them he can replace their movement with something more reliable and easier to service.
I think you confuse people who like modern/late-model watches and those who prefer vintage.

I don't own nor do I desire vintage watches, but it's not hard for me to understand that what appeals to a vintage watch owner is the idea of "originality" and the ties to the age and history of the piece. Once the main heart of the watch (the movement) has been replaced, there is no more history or originality to the watch and therefore it is no more desirable to a vintage watch collector than a brand-new piece they could pick up from any AD. In fact, the mod would be less desirable in that it's old and yet without anything to make it "special".
 
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Obviously I know you weren't being serious by comparing my question to that painted dial. But it was a bad comparison, you can't blame me for that.

What this thread has taught me is some people have extreme opinions on watches, and some don't.

As usual, the correct answer is probably somewhere in the middle.

Also, I'm not sure why some people are getting so angry. It's just a question about a watch. Come on now...

We all value different things in watches, cars, homes, paintings. This is a collector community where originality is valued. A watch can only be original once, and swapping out the movement for whatever reason destroys that originality. Wanting something to remain original is not extreme - it's what collectors are all about as we have tried to tell you so many times now.

I wasn't being silly - if you actually understand what I was getting at it was making a point that is relevant to your question if you are willing to see it. As I've said, painting that dial (poorly as done there or just a regular redial) or swapping a movement is the same thing to us. Both mean the watch is no longer original, so for us it has less value.

The correct answer isn't in the middle, it just depends on who you are and what you value.
 
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We all value different things in watches, cars, homes, paintings. This is a collector community where originality is valued. A watch can only be original once, and swapping out the movement for whatever reason destroys that originality. Wanting something to remain original is not extreme - it's what collectors are all about as we have tried to tell you so many times now.

I wasn't being silly - if you actually understand what I was getting at it was making a point that is relevant to your question if you are willing to see it. As I've said, painting that dial (poorly as done there or just a regular redial) or swapping a movement is the same thing to us. Both mean the watch is no longer original, so for us it has less value.

The correct answer isn't in the middle, it just depends on who you are and what you value.

Then why are you trying so forcibly to say your opinion is the correct one?

I accept a collector of vintage watches wants the watch be to totally original. I've always stated that. But not everyone is a collector. This website is for enthusiasts, the website even describes itself as that. Enthusiast is not the same as a collector. So the opinion of a collector should not be the final opinion of everyone who uses this forum.

Other people should be allowed have an opinion.

Regarding your comparison to the painted watch, you are wrong that I misunderstood you. I just thought you fumbled the point you were trying to make.
 
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You're posting this on a collecting forum.

I must have missed that memo. As far as I can see there are posts in this forum from collectors, non-collectors, even non-owners and all points in between. Imho, the diversity of the members and their opinions is what gives this place its unique charm. I'd hate for only self-perpetuating, unquestioned orthodoxy to be allowed.
 
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Then why are you trying so forcibly to say your opinion is the correct one?

Who is saying that? If anything the quote of mine that you bolded indicates the exact opposite. I've clearly said we all value different things and that what we value is not the same as what you value. How is this forcing my opinion on you?

I've tried to be patient with explaining this to you, but honestly I'm not sure what you are doing now.

You asked us why we think it's such a bad thing to replace a movement in a watch, and we told you. Now you say we are trying to force our opinion as the only one?

::facepalm1::
 
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OK. Calm down. It's just a discussion forum.

I never said your opinion was wrong. In fact I value your opinion. But I have an issue with your aggressive tone. You're being a bit too forceful and trying to shout me down somewhat.

Peace.
 
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I must have missed that memo. As far as I can see there are posts in this forum from collectors, non-collectors, even non-owners and all points in between. Imho, the diversity of the members and their opinions is what gives this place its unique charm. I'd hate for only self-perpetuating, unquestioned orthodoxy to be allowed.

Ok.
 
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OK. Calm down. It's just a discussion forum.

I never said your opinion was wrong. In fact I value your opinion. But I have an issue with your aggressive tone. You're being a bit too forceful and trying to shout me down somewhat.

Peace.

I'm clam - if you are reading "tone" into these posts that's you mate, not me.
 
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I'm clam - if you are reading "tone" into these posts that's you mate, not me.

I know you're a clam.
 
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As usual, the correct answer is probably somewhere in the middle.

I don't think there is "correct" answer, just different opinions and interests.

Many on this forum are purists and value originality. When I started looking into purchasing a vintage watch, I was initially interested in the esthetics. When I realized while reading threads here that I can obtain a nice looking vintage watch (good condition and pleasing esthetics) and originality, then I found that combination ever more engaging. Forum members, like @gatorcpa, @kyle L and @ulackfocus, were instrumental in assisting me in finding a watch that met those criteria. Of course people that are so good at a subject are on the tail end of the population bell curve (by definition) but using the term extremist is a strong word that has negative connotation.
Edited:
 
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The argument for replacing parts in cars keeps getting used to justify replacing or modding watches. Somehow, watch collectors and car collectors are being differentiated but modifying either a watch or a car will affect their value to a collector. If you are a car collector you look for the ads that say "numbers matching" otherwise the value is less.
 
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The argument for replacing parts in cars keeps getting used to justify replacing or modding watches. Somehow, watch collectors and car collectors are being differentiated but modifying either a watch or a car will affect their value to a collector. If you are a car collector you look for the ads that say "numbers matching" otherwise the value is less.
And if you are a car enthusiast, but not a collector/hoarder, you can enjoy all what matters in terms of driving experience and style at a much lower cost.
A big dilemma, but as a monetary investment the matching numbers one will normally be a better one.
The analogy used between watches and cars might seem a bit far fetched sometimes, but I have noted that many eager watch collectors also share a passion for cars.
With both I value a working/functioning one over an all original but defective one.
If I have a choice I will take the all original AND working one thank you!
😗
 
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OK. Calm down. It's just a discussion forum.

I never said your opinion was wrong. In fact I value your opinion. But I have an issue with your aggressive tone. You're being a bit too forceful and trying to shout me down somewhat.

Peace.

WUS called - they want you to start threads like this over there. 😜 I told them I'd give you the message. 👍
 
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He already does.

So noted. 😁

is this thread still going?

Yes. Some of us are terminally pig headed about this and never let the subject drop. And yes, I'm including me as one of the terminally pig headed offenders.
 
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Some people, like me, just like to wear nice watches.

So you what you define as a "nice watch" can be a scrambled together hodge podge of put together parts...as long as they're an "upgrade" to the original.

::facepalm1::

If it a full moon?

Did someone leave the bullshit tap turned to full again?

Do you have any realisation of how ludicrous the stuff you're posting is?

And this crap ran to 4 pages with people telling you why you were wrong?

These are rhetorical questions, please don't reply, you've filled the place with more than enough nonsense for 24 hours.
 
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So you what you define as a "nice watch" can be a scrambled together hodge podge of put together parts...as long as they're an "upgrade" to the original.

::facepalm1::

If it a full moon?

Did someone leave the bullshit tap turned to full again?

Do you have any realisation of how ludicrous the stuff you're posting is?

And this crap ran to 4 pages with people telling you why you were wrong?

These are rhetorical questions, please don't reply, you've filled the place with more than enough nonsense for 24 hours.

Keep it up Cookie Monster and I'll bestow the title of "ΩF official bullshit detector" on you. 😜