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What’s happening on March 26th then?

Archer
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kelsey kelsey
My statements about being shut down had nothing to do with post being deleted. I was replying to your comments about my post not being deleted and just saying that’s incorrect.

I’ve got no problems with posts being deleted if mods choose to, I accept I’m playing at someone else’s house.

So what is this "shutting down" you claim is happening then? You are free to post your views here, and have done so multiple times.

As Evitzee himself said "It's my personal observation, this is a comment board after all." and when you have discussions, you will have disagreements. People will make arguments on either side of an issue, and that is what I have seen on this watch.

The idea that people who disagree with this watch and it's impact are being somehow "shut down" is disproven by the fact that you and others continue to post negatively about it.
 
Archer
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kelsey kelsey
Yes but this is a watch forum, good point though Swatch is the happy meal toy of the watch collecting world (minus the happy Ohhhh wait I mean meal) 😉

Watch collecting is not an environmentally sustainable activity, no matter the materials used for the case.
 
dsio
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Archer Archer
Watch collecting is not an environmentally sustainable activity, no matter the materials used for the case.
I mean, porpoise jawbone oil can’t be all that bad surely, its all natural
 
cvalue13
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Dan S Dan S
Not exactly answering this question, but I have seen people speculating about the nature of the bioceramic. The typical polymer derived from a castor oil feedstock is a polyamide, which is in the nylon family. It is hypothetically recyclable but not biodegradable. The reason I say "hypothetically" is that the watch case is a polymer/zirconia composite, which is not generally recyclable in a standard facility. So unless Swatch makes a concerted effort to offer recycling services for these cases, they will not be recycled. Thus the advantages over petrochemical-derived plastics are fairly marginal at this moment in time. Obviously, looking toward the long term, it is potentially advantageous to use sustainable feedstocks for polymers. However, recycling/upcycling is arguably the bigger technological challenge IMO.

It’s an interesting conversation that hasn’t gotten much thrift yet in our collective discussions.

But almost incidentally earlier in the thread I posted some analyst chatter basically saying sustainability is within the industry’s top 2-3 issues over the next few years. Seen this from a few different analyst groups now.

Synergistically, they also note that sustainability is a top driver of young purchasers (increasingly becoming the majority of luxury purchasers).

The MoonSwatch’s “bioceramic” hasn’t been the only eco-marketed product this (or last) W&W: the Panerai eSteel watches (>50% recycled metals), that accompanied the company’s e-concept watch (99.8% recycled metal) come to mind.

Taken the analysts comments together with the releases highlighting new materials, it makes think/wonder there are some unsavory background environmental facts around the raw materials sourcing, metallurgy, or production wastes, etc., involved in our non-plastic watches.

This O+S bioceramic release was surely Omega’s attempt to associate with sustainability - and I wonder how next Omega will participate in this industry movement.
 
cvalue13
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Archer Archer
Watch collecting is not an environmentally sustainable activity, no matter the materials used for the case.

“There is ethical consumption under capitalism”

👍
 
Archer
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cvalue13 cvalue13
“There is ethical consumption under capitalism”

👍

This argument from our protagonist reminds me of a bit Bill Maher did once - discussions around the budget in the US, and he used a plate of food as the analogy. He said the real issues were the mains on the plate, but everyone was arguing about the cost of the garnish.

Swatch watches are the parsley of the environmental challenges we face.

It's a good bit of misdirection, but it's not terribly relevant in the big picture...
 
kelsey
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Archer Archer
So what is this "shutting down" you claim is happening then? You are free to post your views here, and have done so multiple times.

As Evitzee himself said "It's my personal observation, this is a comment board after all." and when you have discussions, you will have disagreements. People will make arguments on either side of an issue, and that is what I have seen on this watch.

The idea that people who disagree with this watch and it's impact are being somehow "shut down" is disproven by the fact that you and others continue to post negatively about it.
“Unfortunately you don’t have any idea what you’re talking about in any way, shape or form.” Comments like this by DSIO (and liked by you) is where I come from shutting someone down.
 
Archer
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kelsey kelsey
“Unfortunately you don’t have any idea what you’re talking about in any way, shape or form.” Comments like this by DSIO (and liked by you) is where I come from shutting someone down.

So it's an opinion that you do not like. Okay, for you that's shutting down. Now I understand...
 
kelsey
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cvalue13 cvalue13
“There is ethical consumption under capitalism”

👍
When someone says to me communism’s killed 100 million people I always reply yes but capitalism will kill us all.
(Btw that in no way reflects my political views it’s just a point).
 
kelsey
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Archer Archer
So it's an opinion that you do not like. Okay, for you that's shutting down. Now I understand...
It’s not an opinion you don’t say to someone who has a different point of view, that “Unfortunately you don’t have any idea what you’re talking about in any way, shape or form.”
You respect others point of view, whether you agree or not. Everyone here including myself has just a narrow understanding of anything, you therefore have no basis in the context of just a few statements to state blanketly that they do not know what they are talking about.
 
hen
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This tread.... Wow,,,,,, just wow! Status, marketing, production, space and sustainablity among other topics I wonder where its going to end up?

Cvalue13 wrote that sustainability ranks high on both industry and consumers priorities. I do realy hope thats right, but I am afraid that being persived as a sustainable is what they really want. Without taking the cost of really being sustainable. I am not trying to argue or pick a fight, just expressing my some what pessimistic view.

On the other hand the -60s gold Geneve i got after my mothers father must be (like many
enthusiast watches) some of the most sustainable products ever. The gold may have been jewelry in ancient Egypt or Rome, then a gold coin in the middle ages and so on. Now the gold has been a watch for 60 years. With some luck the watch is going to be taken care of by my decendants and some day the gold may be used in a circuit board on the space ship taking humanity beond the final frontiers away from the great ball of plastic watches they used to call Earth. That what I call recycling!

Like I said This tread wow!
 
cvalue13
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hen hen
Cvalue13 wrote that sustainability ranks high on both industry and consumers priorities. I do realy hope thats right, but I am afraid that being persived as a sustainable is what they really want. Without taking the cost of really being sustainable. I am not trying to argue or pick a fight, just expressing my some what pessimistic view.

Oh don’t mind me, I accept that people deeply interested in actual sustainability aren’t buying *any* new watches, in any material.

We all have our little hypocrisies 😁
 
Archer
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kelsey kelsey
It’s not an opinion you don’t say to someone who has a different point of view, that “Unfortunately you don’t have any idea what you’re talking about in any way, shape or form.”
You respect others point of view, whether you agree or not. Everyone here including myself has just a narrow understanding of anything, you therefore have no basis in the context of just a few statements to state blanketly that they do not know what they are talking about.

I guess it comes down to how you define shutting down. To me that means that the negative comments are not allowed. They would be deleted, threads closed, possibly people banned. That hasn’t happened here...but we can agree to disagree...
 
A
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TechFounder TechFounder
So, you’re missing the point? The point here is that they could be 50% of a bigger market.

Maybe swatch group should stop beating a dead horse? If cheap quartz watch sales are on a decline then focus on the actual money makers rather than dragging them down with it.

Markets change. When you can get a glorious smart watch for 200$ is there a reason to mass-buy a quartz sun dial? For most people it seems there isn't. I think that using another brand's heritage to temporarily boost sales is a temporary band aid and that's what bugs me the most about this. It's a lazy temporary solution to a permanent and hard to solve problem. In my opinion swatch would be better served with increasing the fashion appeal of their watches. Make them like wearing fun jewelry. Putting Omega's name on them isn't it.

PS: Apple's biggest trick is that the majority of their customers are incentivized to change their phone at least every two years. Essentially the more phones they sell this year, the more phones they'll sell next year and the year after. Something that rolex and any other luxury brand can't do or benefit from
 
Dedalus05
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Dan S Dan S
Speedmaster aficionados ... it's just an ordinary watch.

I don't claim to be an expert, but I'm pretty sure this is demonstrably untrue. Didn't NASA run a series of tests or something? Correct me if I am wrong, but I seem to recall the moon or something was involved? 😵‍💫
 
Archer
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Dedalus05 Dedalus05
I don't claim to be an expert, but I'm pretty sure this is demonstrably untrue. Didn't NASA run a series of tests or something? Correct me if I am wrong, but I seem to recall the moon or something was involved? 😵‍💫

For some people, the moon connection is very strong. For me, it's certainly not. It's an off the shelf watch (made for racing) that worked better than the others that were tested. The things about getting to the moon that are of more importance to me, are the things that didn't already exist that had to be created, not a watch they purchased...

Perhaps that's one reason why I'm not all twisted up in knots about a plastic watch.
 
Dan S
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Dedalus05 Dedalus05
I don't claim to be an expert, but I'm pretty sure this is demonstrably untrue. Didn't NASA run a series of tests or something? Correct me if I am wrong, but I seem to recall the moon or something was involved? 😵‍💫

@Archer already made the key points about this, and I will add that many watches were used in ways that give them interesting provenance/historical significance (specific races, dives, alpine ascents), but that doesn't necessarily make them special as watches today. At this point in 2022, they are good mass-produced chronographs with a classic design. I like Speedmasters, I have owned quite a few and currently have three vintage pieces in my collection, but I don't see them as luxury watches, status symbols, or particularly unique or special. Omega has already exploited the concept in virtually every cheesy way possible, to the point of using cartoon characters on multiple occasions. If they want to manufacture or own a plastic toy version, I don't care, and it doesn't affect the way I think about "real" Speedmasters.

And while this is just a marketing comment, not about the watch itself, I think that relying on the moon connection is just going to get harder and harder as the years pass and Omega is increasingly selling to customers who do not find the Apollo connection compelling.
Edited:
 
STANDY
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Archer Archer
For some people, the moon connection is very strong. For me, it's certainly not. It's an off the shelf watch (made for racing) that worked better than the others that were tested. The things about getting to the moon that are of more importance to me, are the things that didn't already exist that had to be created, not a watch they purchased...

Perhaps that's one reason why I'm not all twisted up in knots about a plastic watch.

Same here, have a few Speedmasters and my prized Omega is a Cosmic that was worn by a farmer in a paddock for several years. May not have been worn on the moon but survived several paddock walks and rides on the Massey Ferguson over some rough terrain
 
pumpernikiel
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I just came back to this thread today after a week away from it and also a week later from the launch od moonswatch. In the meantime we are also exposed to watches and wonders 2022. Taking it all into account and observing now how this thread is developing I am starting to think that the hype of moonswatch is actually wearing off - hence the side discussions on sustainability, etc. You agree or vice versea? Side discussions are actually showing the opposite?
 
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