Vintage IWC: Applied Logos

Hello,

I have a question on dials on Calibre 8541: When did IWC start using the "double logo" variant?

I am talking about the dials that have the applied "IWC" and the printed, long "International Watch Co." script. I understand that these were used on Cal. 8541 watches, which were introduced around 1964. But did IWC use applied logos right away? I associated them with late 60s/early 70s...

A little bit of background and why I ask this question:

I have two IWCs with Cal. 8451 that are around the same age by serial numbers. But one has a "double logo", the other one doesn't:



Ref. 808:

Movement: 175xxxx

Case: 177xxxx



Ref 809:

Movement:176xxxx

Case: 175xxxx



Accoring to moeb.ch's DateYourIWC, both of them get very similar "birthyears": Calibres are 1964, cased and delivered up to '68. Most likely 1964 or 1965 watches.

Now, I ask myself if the double logo dial on the 809 is a later replacement? Or did IWC just put dials on movements that were available at the moment? I'm thankful for any information around this topic! 😀

Yours,

97'vintage

I'm not completely sure, but I suspect that the one with the applied logo is a replacement dial.
Probably it went to IWC and they replaced the original dial because of tritium. IWC often did so; in fact, many dials have the writing "swiss" instead of "t swiss t" because of a replacement by IWC themselves.
That logo I think starts to be seen during the '70s

@osterman Thank you! That definetly happened often. But the dials on my watches are both non-lume.

I thought so, too. But this Yacht Club is from a 1968 catalogue (credit: Greg Steer).

In the web-site about Ingenieur "Frizzellweb", they say that the applied logo was introduced "late 1960s-early 1970s", and two catalogues are shown, both from 1972, with one Ingenieur with the applied logo and the other without.

With spreadsheet, you mean writing down the dials and numbers of watches from the period in question?

That's interesting! Thank you!

The same as Ingenieur's logo (i.e. co-existence of the applied and non-applied) applies also to Aquatimer ref. 812, according to an article published on Feb. 19, 2023 in "Fratellowatches"

According to the most used on-line database for dating IWC, the second watch is, at the latest (i.e. assuming mov. number is 1769999 and case is 1759999), from 1964 for the movement and 1965 (and delivered up to 1968) for the case.
Probably a little early for the applied logo.
It is absolutely true that both logos continued to be used; for quite a long period; even in a 1980 catalogue some of the watches shown don't have the applied logo.

I found online a bracelet like this one produced by Gay Freres in January 1968

@gatorcpa @osterman Thank you very much for your help! I am getting more and more the impression that the watch was either born with the dial (because it could be delivered until 1967/68). Or the dial was “updated” shortly afterwards. However, I do not have the impression that it is a “wrong” dial in the bad sense.

@vibe My gut tells me 60s, too. But I'm not sure if this particular example is authentic.