Victim of fraudulent eBay buyer - need advice

trackpad · Mar 1, 2017

Also sorry to hear about this. But not at all surprised to learn PayPal does not have your back. I wrote about this a few days ago.

Please everyone, take a few seconds to disabuse yourself of the notion that PayPal offers you any security whatsoever - as a buyer or seller. Just accept it and come to terms with it. They offer slogans. That's it. And a lot of arrogance and fine print. They do not have your back or your best interests at heart.

That this should happen as the result of an established transactional norm (refund before return!??) is just crazy. It's an important reminder of how important the trust relationship needs to be, and that it needs to be a two way street.

With apologies to the many honest sellers and buyers doing their best to make it work, I really find eBay and PP just detestable. Maybe you can tell....not a fan.

@cimo Best of luck with this...I would also encourage you to reach out to the seller and if he doesn't comply go to the police and definitely try and find a way to make this stick to his credit.

WYO_Watch · Mar 1, 2017

I have sold plenty of items via eBay over the years. So long you have proof of delivery (signature confirmation is a huge plus) you should be in the clear minus the headache and time. I would go to your post office and request all the documentation from your tracking label. I believe they keep these tracking numbers logged for a while - I've unfortunately had to do this myself. Upload pictures of all the documentation (screenshots and physical printouts from USPS) onto PayPal. PayPal is supposed to advocate for you against the buyer's credit card company. It will go through an appeal process and with your proof of delivery it will likely be decided in your favor. I also suggest the police report option as I am sure it constitutes fraud if the buyer says he never got the item. Best of luck, sorry you have to go through this.

Uniqez · Mar 1, 2017

I feel really bad for you mate. But I'm wondering how the hell they have issued refund without him returning the watch???? Sounds like a stupid loophole in their system and they should've just close it.
On the other hands, I don't think police would do everything with that kind of case, unless this individual has a record of the same behavior in the past.
Would be interesting to see how everything would turn back. I'm hoping that you are going to get your watch back in the same condition as you sent it out to the guy.
But it is a clear indication that someone could buy the watch, claim that it weren't as described and keep it or even send back a fake one......Thats bizarre.

ffej4 · Mar 1, 2017

@Uniqez Really good point. I'm not sure why PayPal can't tell the bank, "we'll get the money back, but the buyer first needs to return the item to the seller." Now, if it was a fraud-based case, as in the buyer told his CC company that someone made an illegitimate purchase on the card, then he could claim he doesn't have possession of the watch, and that the thief who stole his card information has it. In that case, I can see why mandating a return would be useless. But in this case, it sounds like some kid is simply claiming that it arrived "not as described." Really strange.

adi4 · Mar 1, 2017

Situations like this make me very nervous every time I make a sale, especially a relatively big one. Really makes me wish VenMo or someone else gets more traction and offers commercial options with real protections for sellers and buyers. Right now, the only relatively safe transaction is on trusted forums with trusted buyers who you vet and make sure they don't have their accounts hacked.

Faz · Mar 1, 2017

Wait a minute. I believe the buyer MUST send the watch back in order to go through with a chargeback no?
Did you verify this with his CC company? Make sure they're respond to you "on the record"

Good luck

dx009 · Mar 1, 2017

Paypal screwing sellers ? They've been doing this for many years. They're so "committed" to protecting buyers that they've actually created all sorts of loopholes that scammers can use to not only keep the item that you sell but also they get their money back...

Foo2rama · Mar 1, 2017

Faz
Wait a minute. I believe the buyer MUST send the watch back in order to go through with a chargeback no?
Did you verify this with his CC company? Make sure they're respond to you "on the record"

Good luck

That's a cute thought. 😉

It doesn't work that way in what is called a card absent transaction. IE anything on the Net.

Welcome to a special kind of hell I've dealt with for about 15 years.

WYO_Watch · Mar 1, 2017

Uniqez
But I'm wondering how the hell they have issued refund without him returning the watch????

PayPal doesn't "refund" the money they just put the money on hold. The buyer will not get a refund until the case is resolved. Unfortunately this practice freezes PayPal accounts of users who did nothing wrong.

OmegaLover · Mar 1, 2017

Foo2rama
That's a cute thought. 😉

It doesn't work that way in what is called a card absent transaction. IE anything on the Net.

Welcome to a special kind of hell I've dealt with for about 15 years.

This is company policy. No company policy is above the law. NO money no item in OP case is wrong an illegal.

Foo2rama · Mar 1, 2017

OmegaLover
This is company policy. No company policy is above the law. NO money no item in OP case is wrong an illegal.

I wish it worked that way in practice. CC companies stick their head in the sand on these issues and side with the card holder. Local PD's tend to not want to get involved either.

OmegaLover · Mar 1, 2017

Foo2rama
I wish it worked that way in practice. CC companies stick their head in the sand on these issues and side with the card holder. Local PD's tend to not want to get involved either.

Small claim CC co always works.

fzhu052 · Mar 1, 2017

I will also continue to call eBay and see whether you should be covered by their 'seller protection' policy. They charge 10% fee and need to show value.

Foo2rama · Mar 1, 2017

OmegaLover
Small claim CC co always works.

Hard to do when your out of the jurisdiction, as the claim must be made in the buyers jurisdiction🙁

OmegaLover · Mar 1, 2017

Foo2rama
Hard to do when your out of the jurisdiction, as the claim must be made in the buyers jurisdiction🙁

Small claim on CC company buyer has nothing to do with CC policy.

Foo2rama · Mar 1, 2017

OmegaLover
Small claim on CC company buyer has nothing to do with CC policy.

Be my guest and try that, if you get past the filing the case I would be surprised. I have been dealing with these issues professionally for almost 15 years

OmegaLover · Mar 1, 2017

Foo2rama
Be my guest and try that, if you get past the filing the case I would be surprised. I have been dealing with these issues professionally for almost 15 years

I did and won, and not only me but many other people too. If you are more interested in this google up some legal forums there many out-there on how-to.

WatchVaultNYC · Mar 1, 2017

OmegaLover
I did and won, and not only me but many other people too. If you are more interested in this google up some legal forums there many out-there on how-to.

I've been in e-commerce with tens of thousands of sales, and a few credit card nightmares, what you say has never worked for me, and I do this as a business so it's not like I am uniformed and just want to disagree with you - I want you to be right and I want me to be wrong, because more $$$ for me if I'm wrong. But I'll admit I don't have perfect knowledge on everything. Send me some good links and lets see where this leads.

MaiLollo · Mar 1, 2017

Wow, this guy really is a big piece of s**t. It makes me wonder if I should sell any more items on eBay or via PayPal
I know it's not helpful but sometimes a little comforting makes you feel better 😀

Rodmar · Mar 1, 2017

I try and always only ever accept giftedandit has saved me in the past.

I understand that's not possible with say @WatchVaultNYC but that's the route I go. I have such a good reputation that no one ever argues with me over it.

Saves everyone 3% and now you won't have an issue. But I'll assume it's different when they pay via a CC and they can get fight it.

I think I'm done dealing with PayPal after your ordeal as I almost had this happen with a $5,300 item I sold. I am usually stressed out the entire time I'm waiting for the person to receive the item.

Victim of fraudulent eBay buyer - need advice

trackpad

WYO_Watch

Uniqez

ffej4

adi4

Faz

dx009

Foo2rama

WYO_Watch

OmegaLover

Foo2rama

OmegaLover

fzhu052

Foo2rama

OmegaLover

Foo2rama

OmegaLover

WatchVaultNYC

MaiLollo

Rodmar

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