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It finally happened... my first fraudulent Paypal claim.

sonicosa
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I've been buying and selling on ebay for 2 decades now, and this is the first issue I can recall having.

Over the past 6 months, after reading experiences and words of caution from OF members, (wise warnings from @Dan S and an anecdote from @Shabbaz come to mind), I've become increasingly wary of selling on ebay or accepting paypal payments from strangers without reliable feedback. Well, it finally happened today, and I had a fraudulent paypal claim opened against me.

I sold a watch part on ebay about a week ago. The buyer only had 3 feedback and none of it recent. The name of the person who I received payment from was different from the buyer / person I shipped the item to. There are obviously some red flags in there, but what am I supposed to do as a seller? If I cancel the transaction and refund the money, paypal still keeps their cut, I'm not sure what ebay does regarding their fee, but I'd also be opening myself up to negative feedback.

Thankfully this was a low-cost item, so if paypal decides in the buyer's favor, I'm only out ~$30, but either way, I can't imagine selling on ebay again in the future. I feel like I've been rolling the dice, and they were eventually going to come up snake eyes. I'm just glad it wasn't on a higher cost item. Although I still have several items inside their ridiculous 180 day window, so who knows.
 
Dan S
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Very sorry to hear this. Even thought the financial downside isn't huge, it feels terrible to be exploited like that. Keep us updated, I'm sure that many of us will be interested to hear how the case proceeds. eBay and PP are independent, so if PP decides against you, there's still a chance that eBay will reimburse you as long as you followed all of their guidelines.
Edited:
 
Marsimaxam
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Congratulations?
It's a claim, and both sides will be allowed to state what happened. You didn't say what the buyer's complaint actually is in this matter. Is the buyer now claiming that he did not receive item as you shipped it to the wrong address? Unless the buyer requested that you change the shipping address, it's all automatic. Did buyer request you ship to a different address in writing? My faith in humanity takes another hit.
Curious how this one plays out.

Thankfully it isn't over a 2500 watch.
 
sonicosa
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Dan S Dan S
Very sorry to hear this. Even thought the financial downside isn't huge, it feels terrible to be exploited like that. Keep us updated, I'm sure that many of us will be interested to hear how the case proceeds.
Thank you, Dan. I appreciate that.

I forgot to mention that the buyer says the reason for the case was "Unauthorized Transaction" So that, in combination with the different names and inactive ebay account, makes me think the buyer's account may have been hacked. Ebay also doesn't have a way for me report the buyer's account that matches my circumstances.

Screen Shot 2020-08-31 at 10.56.12 PM.png
 
Marsimaxam
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Please contact eBay directly, they will respond to your email. Let them know of your suspicions and what happened in this situation.
I hope it works out for you, but, no one, regardless of the cost, deserves to be scammed, swindled, or choose your own word. Seems like there are two wronged parties.
 
sonicosa
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Marsimaxam Marsimaxam
You didn't say what the buyer's complaint actually is in this matter.

Shabbaz Shabbaz
That's unfortunate. What happened exactly? Good luck!

Thanks to both of you for responding. I was so annoyed at the situation, that I forgot to say what the complaint was. The dispute was filed as an "Unauthorized Transaction". The account owner actually disputed the charge with their credit card company, and not with paypal directly. So I'm assuming paypal opened the dispute when they saw the charge had been reversed or something along those lines. (See my post above, but I'm thinking the ebay / paypal account may have been hacked.)

I've responded to the dispute in paypal, and will keep the thread updated as this unfolds.
 
sonicosa
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Marsimaxam Marsimaxam
Please contact eBay directly, they will respond to your email. Let them know of your suspicions and what happened in this situation.
I hope it works out for you, but, no one, regardless of the cost, deserves to be scammed, swindled, or choose your own word. Seems like there are two wronged parties.

Thanks again. I wasn't able to find an email for ebay (again, none of their pre-determined categories quite fit my circumstances), but I was able to request a call back, which should happen in the next 30 minutes.
 
Dan S
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If the eBay account was hacked, I suspect that PP will reimburse the buyer and eBay will reimburse you. At least if you are persistent.
 
NGO1
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Here is what you should do.
Do nothing.
Buy your wife some flower and take her out to dinner.

Putting on a fight w a scammer/PayPal is a waste of energy. Not for $30.
 
sonicosa
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NGO1 ngo516
Here is what you should do.
Do nothing.
Buy your wife some flower and take her out to dinner.

Putting on a fight w a scammer/PayPal is a waste of energy. Not for $30.

I agree. I responded to the paypal dispute and don’t plan to put much energy into this other than that.

Trying to contact ebay was primarily to inform them this account is likely compromised, so that no one else has to face a similar issue, potentially with a higher priced item.

Edit: ...and I’m sure my wife will appreciate the reminder to get her some fresh flowers, so thanks! 😀
 
NGO1
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With that said, every time boss lady received flower from me she immediately responded “what the f did you do?”
Bigger the effort, bigger the fυck up, naturally.

oh, and 2 decades on EBay, with just ONE scammer! You are the luckiest man alive.
 
Ritzwatch
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NGO1 ngo516
Here is what you should do.
Do nothing.
Buy your wife some flower and take her out to dinner.

Putting on a fight w a scammer/PayPal is a waste of energy. Not for $30.
I like this advice, and think it is wise, but I also think if you are to change your mind and continue selling on ebay , this would be a decent "test case" to work through and figure out the answers to your questions in resolving the matter just in case, for the future...

But I wouldn't get too worked up, and I'd still get the flowers...
 
JwRosenthal
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I’ve had a couple conflicts/scams with sellers (none a hacked account), primarily with buyers in the East. eBay has always sided with me- as a seller, so I guess it doesn’t always go the way of the buyer/scammer.
I have since blocked buyers from specific countries, low feedback bidders- basically everything I can- and I have gotten many nastigrams from potential bidders angry that they can’t bid- but to each one I apologize and say I have been scammed too many times and need to be cautious- they have all understood.
Set up your preferences, be adamant about following eBay rules (don’t ship int’l outside of eBay system- the scammers prey on this) and don’t ever ship to an address not matching in the system. If any red flags ping- contact eBay before you ship. A real buyer will understand a day or two delay in shipping.
It sucks being burned, but you are actually a smarter seller now- you have your guard up.
 
mjb
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In my experience, if the transaction is cancelled and payment is refunded, all fees are refunded as well.

Good thing it's just $30. I've had a couple of bad experiences as a seller on eBay too, which is why I limit it to transactions of just a few hundred dollars. No Omegas.

Except for cars. Cars are a different story, and eBay gives you so many eyeballs that it's worth the $150.
 
WatchCor
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mjb mjb
In my experience, if the transaction is cancelled and payment is refunded, all fees are refunded as well.

Yeah, this has changed as far as I know. If i understand correctly, PayPal keeps their cut even if you refund/cancel the transaction.
 
TechFounder
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eBay will typically look at the feedback scores of both parties. It sounds like you have a much better reputation than the buyer so you have nothing to worry about. I've been on the platform since 1998 and have perfect ratings. In fact, they just sent me a $25 coupon for being such a good long time customer.

I've only had a couple of mishaps over the decades. First, I sold a $500 Montblanc fountain pen once and the buyer, an elderly lady, took apart the cap and decided she didn't want it. She instituted a refund and said that the pen wasn't authentic or some other nonsense. After escalating the case the customer service rep sided with me. The main reason was that the buyer disassembled the cap and put it back together. You can't take something apart and expect a refund.

The second time I bought a $3k binocular. The seller shipped a set of earthen dishware. I received a full refund.
 
FreelanceWriter
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sonicosa sonicosa
The name of the person who I received payment from was different from the buyer / person I shipped the item to. There are obviously some red flags in there, but what am I supposed to do as a seller?
Why did you ship it to a different person? If they checkout through eBay/PayPal, the buyer's name and address are automatically displayed. How did the buyer communicate the change request? Once in a while, I've asked sellers to ship something to someone else for me, noting that they have our communications preserved in the system, but I have 1000+ transactions and 100% feedback over 20 years. They usually don't have a problem with it, but they've refused once or twice and I understood their concerns.
 
sonicosa
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FreelanceWriter FreelanceWriter
Why did you ship it to a different person? If they checkout through eBay/PayPal, the buyer's name and address are automatically displayed. How did the buyer communicate the change request? Once in a while, I've asked sellers to ship something to someone else for me, noting that they have our communications preserved in the system, but I have 1000+ transactions and 100% feedback over 20 years. They usually don't have a problem with it, but they've refused once or twice and I understood their concerns.

I just noticed the name on the paypal payment was different from the name on the shipping address on file with paypal. I see that happen from time to time, and usually assume it’s someone paying with an account they share with a parent or spouse.
 
sonicosa
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An update on this: I spoke with someone at ebay today. They assured me that since I shipped to the address on file and was able to provide tracking, the dispute would be settled in my favor. They also transferred me to a department that looks into accounts that may have been compromised, they said they would follow up with me after contacting the buyer. I'll update the thread if that happens.

I haven't heard back from Paypal yet, and they're the ones who need to decide the case. Time will tell I guess.

The most important point to follow up on though, I haven't gotten my wife flowers yet, but plan to tomorrow. Thanks for the encouragement there. I'll be sure to post a pic of the bouquet, as it was a group effort 😁
 
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