Unpolished case vs. polished case Speedmaster value.

OhmMega · Feb 7, 2018

Does anyone have an idea what is the "premium" for a Speedmaster with an unpolished case vs. Speedmaster with a polished case. All other things assumed to be equal.

I have a 145.012.67 with HF case which is unpolished so that is of special interest of course. But any other insight on unpolished Speedy values interest me.

There were a few threads around case polishing but I opened a new thread as those threads did not discuss about the potential premium unpolished cases are said to have over polished cases. Moderators can move / merge this thread if needed.

incabloc · Feb 7, 2018

OhmMega
I have a 145.012.67 with HF case which is unpolished so that is of special interest of course. But any other insight on unpolished Speedy values interest me.

Welcome to OF 😉

So you are the first owner of this 145.012-67 that you know it was never "polished" ?

Foo2rama · Feb 7, 2018

Generally don’t touch the case.

Almost never will collectors value go up with a polish.

On the other hand periodically over polished turds that are incorrect sell well on eBay.

A Speedy Pros condition is taken on a Watch by watch basis. Look at a few hundred and you start to get an idea of its rating. There is a wide range between good and collectors and the case is only a fraction of the price difference. Dial, lume, hands, bezel, correctness are all aspects. If you have everything perfect except for a shot or wrong bezel... 4K at least off the top of the watch as you need a perfect DON to make the watch work.

It’s really impossible to assign a percentage price to an unpolished case. There is also normal wear and tear etc.

OhmMega · Feb 7, 2018

incabloc
Welcome to OF 😉

So you are the first owner of this 145.012-67 that you know it was never "polished" ?

Thanks for the warm welcome, appreciate it.

No, I am not the 1st owner of the watch so I don't know 100% that it was *never* polished.

I should have known that I need to be more careful with my choice of words, before someone jumps on them 😀 All the angles etc. are there like they are supposed to be in the original as far as I have been told. Yes, I also do understand that it is possible to polish the case so that the angles remain.

I came to OF from another well known forum due to the fact that this is dedicated to Omega and most likely people here are more knowledgeable about Omega-watches in particular.

For the über-anal the only way to figure out a case was *never* polished would be to get a NOS case (or several of them) laser measure the cases from all possible angles, and then compare the results to a given case.

Below my watch which looks like it hasn't been polished. To an untrained eye that is. That being said, like it was very kindly pointed out to me, I haven't owned the watch since new so I can't be 100% sure about it. Pictures are not the best of quality thanks to mobile phone and more thanks to my lack of skills in photography. Yes, loose chrono button will be fixed soon 😀

I guess my watch would rate as okay'ish. Doesn't have the 1039 bracelet but AFAIK has the right parts. There are much better Speedmasters around albeit much worse as well. This one is worn almost daily though.

OhmMega · Feb 7, 2018

Foo2rama
Generally don’t touch the case.

Almost never will collectors value go up with a polish.

On the other hand periodically over polished turds that are incorrect sell well on eBay.

A Speedy Pros condition is taken on a Watch by watch basis. Look at a few hundred and you start to get an idea of its rating. There is a wide range between good and collectors and the case is only a fraction of the price difference. Dial, lume, hands, bezel, correctness are all aspects. If you have everything perfect except for a shot or wrong bezel... 4K at least off the top of the watch as you need a perfect DON to make the watch work.

It’s really impossible to assign a percentage price to an unpolished case. There is also normal wear and tear etc.

Thanks for a solid reply, appreciate it.

I plan on keeping the watch in the photos as it is. I believe the imperfections - minor or not so minor - are part of the story of a given watch. I can always buy a new watch if I want to have a shiny watch 😀

Value is definitely on case by case basis and at times somehow watches in similar condition fetch different values. Perhaps someone with a thick wallet has been on the market during those times 😀

apm1 · Feb 7, 2018

OhmMega
For the über-anal the only way to figure out a case was *never* polished would be to get a NOS case (or several of them) laser measure the cases from all possible angles, and then compare the results to a given case.

An expert watchmaker can tell you this just by looking at the case with a loupe. From the picture you presented is difficult to evaluate.

OhmMega · Feb 7, 2018

apm1
An expert watchmaker can tell you this just by looking at the case with a loupe. From the picture you presented is difficult to evaluate.

As I am not familiar with the nuances and intricacies about the elements on how to distinguish a polished case vs. non polished case, can you (or someone else) enlighten on how an expert watchmaker identifies a polished case vs. non polished case i.e. without measuring the case? If the case has been polished say 10-years ago and isn't buffed to an obvious tell-tale shine?

I would like to understand better what I have. Be it polished or non polished. Based on pictures judging might be impossible?

dennisthemenace · Feb 7, 2018

Better pics would help, but looking at the second pic the case appears unpolished to me, it's just showing signs of being worn for 50 years.

OhmMega · Feb 7, 2018

dennisthemenace
Better pics would help, but looking at the second pic the case appears unpolished to me, it's just showing signs of being worn for 50 years.

I'll supply better pictures once I get the watch back from the watchmaker (chrono-button is being fixed). Just turned it in today.

djmusicman · Feb 7, 2018

It's getting harder to tell what is truly unpolished, here's an example of a factory refinish on an overpolished GMT. This work was done by a shop in Italy. LA Watchworks and ABC in the US, and Rocco Manfredi in the UK. I think that the results are great and that it makes a watch that was incorrectly polished look much better. I have a problem with the polishing techniques of the guy who just took the watch to a polishing wheel (even Rolex and Omega didn't really seem to care much about the cases during service).

We see the results of this now on the vintage watch market. 95% of the vintage watches that we see for sale have been poorly polished. The guys who meticulously restore the original case to the factory finish get a lot of respect from me.

apm1 · Feb 7, 2018

OhmMega
As I am not familiar with the nuances and intricacies about the elements on how to distinguish a polished case vs. non polished case, can you (or someone else) enlighten on how an expert watchmaker identifies a polished case vs. non polished case i.e. without measuring the case? If the case has been polished say 10-years ago and isn't buffed to an obvious tell-tale shine?

Simply because they have handed hundreds of them and they know what/where to look. I am not talking about any watchmaker, but vintage experts.
In any case, try to supply high quality pictures which are in focus and we will take a look.
For what I see the case is in very good conditions.

77deluxe · Feb 7, 2018

LAWW does fantastic work. But you can usually tell a case re-cut by how deep the springbars sit in the lugholes. Unless someone shaves down the springbars ends.

asrnj77 · Feb 7, 2018

The watch is 50 years old. If it has ever been serviced it was likely polished. Unless the watch is over polished then it’s almost always “unpolished” by sellers but that’s unrealistic. It doesn’t really matter in the end and won’t make a ton of difference in the price because real buyers can tell by the pics if they’re comfortable with the condition. I think if you knew the exact unpolished weight you could weigh it now to compare it

Davidt · Feb 7, 2018

Laser measuring of NOS cases wouldn't help for two reasons:

1. Many cases listed as NOS are actually just new, new stock and have slight variations from genuine vintage cases.
2. More importantly I believe vintage cases were finished by hand, so even two genuine NOS cases may have different measurements.

The best way to be sure is to handle and many as you can, both polished and unpolished, and give the case in question a thorough going over and rely on experience (and the fact that genuine unpolished is extremely rare).

gdupree · Feb 7, 2018

I'd love to see some more photos of this watch in a little more adequate natural lighting (and rotated 😀). But from theseI agree with @dennisthemenace that it looks to have little to no polishing. Edges look as sharp as youd expect from something that old, and the various surface finishes look to be correct for each facet. More photos plz, even if its just for fun.

p.s. welcome

OhmMega · Feb 7, 2018

Got the watch back already today from the chrono button fix. Here are a few more pictures of the said watch. Don't know are these any better than the photos before but here goes 😉

I haven't owned the watch from new (the watch is actually older than I am) so yeah, perhaps it is polished at some point in its life. What I do *see* is that at least it isn't ruined by overpolishing and rounding of the edges. It's most definitely not the best 145.012 in the world but most likely it's not the worst 145.012 either. Semi-decent might be an appropriate description.

Easiest thing in the world is to doubt & challenge anything just by challenging it.

(ps. my earlier laser measurement comment was made a bit tongue in cheek 😀 )

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apm1 · Feb 7, 2018

How is it possible that you can't take a picture in focus?!

dennisthemenace · Feb 7, 2018

I told you the pusher would be a 5 minute job. 😉

OhmMega · Feb 7, 2018

apm1
How is it possible that you can't take a picture in focus?!

Thank Sony cell phone for that. I don't know where my SLR battery is so apologies for not being able to satisfy your appetite for perfect pictures. I can of course take the pictures down so it doesn't annoy you so much. Sorry again.

OhmMega · Feb 7, 2018

dennisthemenace
I told you the pusher would be a 5 minute job. 😉

And it most definitely was! Thanks!

Unpolished case vs. polished case Speedmaster value.

OhmMega

incabloc

Foo2rama

OhmMega

OhmMega

apm1

OhmMega

dennisthemenace

OhmMega

djmusicman

apm1

77deluxe

asrnj77

Davidt

gdupree

OhmMega

apm1

dennisthemenace

OhmMega

OhmMega

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